Another Attack on Rocketry

Once again Ray, ya missed the point. ARSA has done nothing to you, so stop with the cheap shots and show a little tact.

-Boomer

Arnold, The issue is not with the $45. A club can ask whatever is reasonable. The rules, albeit quite steep are meant to keep the launch site. Again a club can make what ever rules are needed, thats fine too.

The issue is with the fictitious BoD. What is the a BoD of? Since it is neither a TRA or NAR club. Given the currently presented rules, if you remain the TRA Prefect and Oliver the NAR President, the situation would be good. If you dont want the responsibility of being the Prefect because it takes too much time, thats fine, step down and let someone else be Prefect. But you cant relieve yourself of the Prefect duties and still stay in power. That is what you are trying to do and it is wrong.

People put up with the hassle of being the President or Prefect for the recognition of being in that position and the power it brings. You are tired of the hassle of the position so came up with this scheme of a "Field BoD" so you could relive yourself of the hassles and still remain in power.

Either remain to be the Prefect or let it go. Frontier and the hobby of rocketry is not about you and what you want. Its not about you having power over others, which we all know you love. It is about having fun and flying rockets.

So you have found a perfect field for "you", and want to be sure "you" keep it and "you" stay in charge of it, and "you" also found a good way to keep the lines down so "you" can fly more often. Thats great, go ahead and cut all ties with NAR or TRA, join ARSA and fly their alone.

It's very sad that some peoples power trips had torn apart as many clubs as it has. Is there any hope?

Robert DeHate CMASS member Ex-Frontier member NAR 75198 L3

The best thing, IMHO, is to discuss the rules with the people who need to abide by them. Most everyone who plans to fly with us is aware of the major restrictions and they seem to be able to deal with them.

Mario Perdue NAR #22012 Sr. L2 for email drop the planet

Not always. Sometimes it's just the last guy to say "not it".

;-)

Jerry you really are a jerk! You don't know the details, but are taking a position. I am beginning to believe what people say about you is well deserved.

The money brought in from dues for the first year covered on 50% of costs.. The money brought in from dues for the second year covered 85% of costs. In 2003 the dues just covered costs, but not the insurance minimum requirements which had to be met by the B.O.D.

So tell, Mr. Irvine what money went into the bank?

Arnold Roquerre

Yes. The funny part is that the ones screaming the most are the ones who stiffed us on field dues we collected to pay for the field. They always kept saying, " We will pay later." Except later never came. The B.O.D. was so busy running the launches that these gems of humanity used that against us. These are the same folks that drove over the farmers crops and then were angered when we asked them to pay for the damage. The B.O.D. ended up footing the bill.

Those bitching are the ones who the rules are being put in place to deal with. People not paying field fees, ignoring safety rules, damaging field crops, etc. etc. There are times when an organization gets members who do nothing but bitch and cause 80% of the problems. When that happens steps have to be taken. Fields a plenty have been lost because of such people. They are the real danger to amateur rocketry. They don't feel they have to answer to anyone including the FAA which can lead to some serious problems. The B.O.D. had hoped allowing them to join that they would reduce their flagrant disereguard for safety and legal issues. It didn't. They simply tried to turn Frontier Rocektry into a club that would let them do what they wanted.

Yes, I agree. The problem is that the few who do not agree are also the ones causing most of the problems. They have suggestions galore and criticisms in abundance, but they never volunteer to help and they never want to contribute one dime more than they have to and they scream doing that. When we asked people to volunteer to be RSO or to run for office all we get from this group is that it takes too much time, does that mean I have to be at all the launches, I won't be able to fly my rockets as much, I PAID MY DUES THAT YOUR JOB. Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah!

These people are the same ones that feel field etiquette is silly. They feel that since the farmer gets a whopping $150 that they can do what ever the hell they want and the farmer should eat it. Why, the farmer is rich, we gave him $150. They don't believe accidents can happen and don't understand the litigation that would come following an accident.

The B.O.D. is not fictitious. It was Frontier Rocketry Inc., that negotiated the contract with the owner. It was the B.O.D. that had to provide chemical analysis of the exhaust from AP motors and assurances that we would do nothing that would contaminate the field. It was the B.O.D. that had to provide photographs and negotiate launch areas with the owners. Frontier Rocketry Inc. and the B.O.D. are the ones who the owners have trusted to take care of their fields and to keep them from facing litigation from the EPA and the Audubon Society. We have more to deal with than you are aware. Considering that you never help out, ever, it is no surprise that you don't understand this. Neither Tripoli nor NAR have any control over the flied. The contractual and legal obligations fall on Frontier Rocketry Inc. and its B.O.D. It was the reputations and contacts of the B.O.D. and their assurances that secured the field. The B.O.D. has a contractual obligation to protect the owners from any litigation coming form flying rockets on the field. The corporate officers know us and know that we understand their concerns. The minute they feel otherwise will be when the field is pulled by them.

Now since you want to piss in public lets get on with it. You are one of the people causing the problems. You never help out on the field. During the Experimental Launch you tore out so fast that you thought the cable on the ground was Frontier's and you left it. You actually had the balls to ask if anyone picked up the cable after you realized you had left the cable on the field two days later. Three of us watched you and two of us bet you would leave the cable. I was one of the winners. You don't like paying one dime more than you have to. You never attended the meeting at the hotel we booked a room specifically to allow those with concerns to discuss the issues. You never show up early to help with the set up or stay late to help with breaking down. Hell, you don't even pick up your spent igniters off the field. You just show up and leave and bitch.!

Doesn't the safety code itself solve all problems?

Who is "they"?

For asking two respectful questions?

No.

Answer them then tell me if I am a jerk or not.

Asking two questions is NOT a position.It is a question!

I am beginning to see how those opinions are irrationally formed. It is interesting if sickening.

Over the course of time I presume the price you charge slightly offsets costs and the balance will go into the club bank. If I were managing the club I would find some way every three months or so to kill or pare way back at least one of the draconian rules. I would also find a way to reduce member fees in the future. Perhaps the entire solution is to ban clear stiffers and brodie makers on crops.

None of it has to do with me unless there is a rule specifically written to keep me from coming and enjoying your "unique" hospitality.

WWJD

No.

So does that mean all motors are welcomed, certified or not?

Jerry

Let's shift gears a bit, since you are responding to queries regarding the rules. Rule #22 states you have to bring J-M rockets with altimeters to have the altitude verified. As a fellow who is not good at imitating forklifts, will a B.O.D. member not make a trip to the rocket's home to get the info themselves, since said info is evidently so important? I know I wouldn't carry a 60 lb. rocket 10 more feet than I have to, and my altimeters are not "pop out".

Is this rule for waiver protection? If so, what about rockets that obviously aren't breaking the waiver (oddrocs and the like)?

Ah, you poor baby! You have to join Frontier Rocketry Inc. to fly on one of the largest fields in New England. How absolutely horrible. How can you stand the agony of it! The horrific cruelty and injustice of having to pay $45 a year. Oh, how can you stand it! I do, I really do, feel your pain. Obviously, you are one of those hapless victims being buffeted about by cruel and mean forces out to screw you and take you hard earned money from you. Not going to be hard to figure who you are going to be voting for.

Oh by the way, it is not my rules.The rules are the B.O.D.'s rules. Any two can override the third, so they agree. Just so you know. I you had bothered to attend the meeting or contact Olivier or Mike or read the posts you would know you can only fly A - E if you are not a member of Frontier Rocketry Inc. The real purpose of the A-E pads are to give kids and newbie's a chance to fly. In fact, we will be holding free launches for a lot of kids this summer. Of course you probably feel the $5 charged is excessive even though it will be collected by the NAR/Tripoli officers to be used by them for their clubs since they will have to oversee the launches.

LOL

Like I said, there are alot of things the Prefect/President have to put up with. You are not alone in it, many other clubs have had to jump through hoops to get and maintain fields. But why do you want to seperate the field from the club? You should remain the Prefect, put your new rules in place, and move on.

Arnold, I have no idea who you are talking about, but its not me. I am not a TRA member, and as such have never been to an Ex launch on your field or any other field. The launches I have been to, Frontier only had a saw horse with 5 rods in it and a table. I have had to bring and use my own equipment, and tore it down and cleaned up my area when done. And as always I pick up stray wadding and other debree I run across on the field. I always have and always will. I paid the launch fees for the day, even offered more when I was told it was covered for the day. I would like to see this field part of the hobby. I dont care what rules the club has to put in place, I dont care what membership dues the club charges. But you want to seperate yourself from the club, and NAR, and TRA. You understand what my question is, but you choose to argue points that are moot.

You need to drop this BoD thing. Its a lame attempt at keeping control. Why don't you allow the club and its elected officers to control the field. And if you think you are the most qualified person to control it then run for club Prefect.

That is the way it has always been done across the country. You used to do it that way. Why change it now? And I am not talking about the new rules or dues.

Sheesh Robert DeHate

Certainly, certainly... my thought, though, was that "site owners and what it takes to maintain good relationships with them" might be a worthwhile topic... sounds like, in your situation (and Arnold's), it was an unusually complex and detailed negotiation, which might therefore contain lessons that might be applicable to simpler cases, no?

-dave w

Are you a special ed graduate? This is an expensive hobby, boy. Hell, two packs of Estes Ds and an Estes Phoenix run that. If that is all you can afford then you won't be able to handle the big stuff, especially the one's that require EXPENSIVE deployment backup. This being an election year you could request a subsidy claiming mental trauma. I am sure the Democrats will be able to fit you in nicely somehow. In short, $45 is nothing for a year. Only excessively cheap individuals would think otherwise. The $45 is to pay for costs that has been borne by the B.O.D. for too many years. I suppose you do know that the B.O.D. picked up 50% of the field costs for the first year and paid for it out of their pockets as they had done for all the reports required to secure the field.