1. Home
  2. Model rockets forum
  3. Another Attack on Rocketry

Another Attack on Rocketry

From: "Arnold Roquerre" To: "Olivier Kozlowski", "Mike Bellino", "Arnold M. Roquerre" Subject: Frontier Rocketry re-organization plan Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:19:39 -0500

  1. Frontier Rocketry Inc. yearly membership fee is for individual and for family. All individuals must be members of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch any rocket on the field(s) under the corporation's control except A-E.

  1. The Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. set all launch dates, determine if on a launch day if their will be a launch. There can be no launches without the direct authorization of the B.O.D. The Prefect and the NAR President must have verbal approval from at least one B.O.D. before Okaying a launch.

  2. The onsite B.O.D. can scrub any launch, request a flyer to leave the field and close the field during the launch day. The onsite B.O.D. will remove anyone or club from the field found to be violating Tripoli or NAR safety rules.

  1. There can be no launches until a member of the Frontier Rocketry Inc. Board of Directors is onsite. Violation of this rule will result in the immediate suspension for the year of the person or person(s) violating this rule.

  2. The Frontier Rocketry Inc. website is under the direct control of the B.O.D. The Boston Tripoli Prefect and the NAR Frontier Rocketry President may make suggestions for changes for the B.O.D. to take under advisement.

  1. Frontier Rocketry Inc. is the only agent to negotiate or contract with any owner or tenant for access to storage or any other item to be used in flying rockets. A- E or any members violating this rule will no longer be allowed to fly on the field permanently.

  2. Only the Board of Directors of Frontier Rocketry Inc. may contact the F.A.A. or the owners of land(s) the B.O.D. have contracted with for the purpose of launching rockets. Any club or member who violates this rule will be suspended from Frontier Rocketry Inc. and not allowed to fly on the field(s) contracted for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members vilating this rule will be permanently suspended from using the field

  1. Both Tripoli Boston and NAR Frontier Rocketry have the permission of Frontier Rocketry Inc. to launch rockets frmm the field(s) contracted for by Frontier Rocketry Inc. for the purpose of launching rockets.

  2. Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the officers the national Tripoli organization requires which includes Prefect and Secretary at the beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D.on the the first launch date.

  1. Frontier Rocketry paid members will vote for the NAR members will vote for the officers the national NAR organization requires which includes President at the beginning of the calendar year and the results submitted to the B.O.D. on the first launch date.

  2. The Boston Tripoli Officers and NAR Officers will be listed on the Frontier Rocketry Inc. website under the names of Board of Directors.

  1. The Tripoli Prefect and Secretary and the NAR President will set dues for their respective sufficient to pay national club dues and to hold a reserve sufficient to cover the insurance deductibles provided under Tripoli or NAR insurance. Proof of the above will be submitted to the B.O.D. of Frontier Rocketry Inc. for approval before any launching by either club will be allowed by the B.O.D.

  2. If not done in advance, before any launch commences, Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry will pay the onsite B.O.D. 0 to cover the cost of the field for the day's activity.

  1. Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry are responsible for ensuring that: all Tripoli and NAR safety rules are followed; verifying all flyers level before issuing them flight cards; no igniters or litter are left on the field; all holes created by flyers or filled; all waivers required by the B.O.D. or signed by all flyers; and no one is on the field who does not belong. Failure to enforce the above can result in loss of flying privileges of the club allowing the violation(s).

  2. There will be no Level III flights without the approval of at least two members of the B.O.D. which must be secured one week in advance.

  1. Only Frontier Rocketry Inc. Members can fly rockets with F thru M motors and they must hold a Level II to launch F ? K and a Level III to launch L ? M motors. The Tripoli Prefect must okay the acting RSO/LCO as required under Tripoli Safety rules.

  2. Non members can not enter the F thru M flight area designated in the schematic below.

  1. Non-members can access the low power pads for payable to NAR Frontier Rocketry for the day.

  2. All flyers will fill out an appropriate launch card. The Tripoli Prefect and the NAR President will be responsible for supplying, collecting and verifying the data recorded on the flight card.

  1. All flight cards will be turned over to the onsite B.O.D. at the end of the launch day. Failure to turn over launch cards will result in the suspension of the club responsible for a period not less than one month.

  2. All J ? M flights will use at least two deployment systems of which one will be an electronic deployment system approved by the B.O.D. which records altitude at apogee. The second can be vendor supplied motor ejection.

  1. After a J through M flight the recording altimeter will be brought to the B.O.D. for verification. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended from the field for a period to be determined by the B.O.D.

  2. All flyers will bring their own launch equipment. Unless they have been told otherwise by either the Tripoli Prefect or the NAR President.

  1. Boston Tripoli and NAR Frontier Rocketry may provide launch equipment, but they are responsible for set up and break down and bear all liability for any accidents incurred by any flyer using the equipment or member setting up or breaking down the equipment.

  2. All launches will be the designated launch tables designated on the schematic below. All launch controllers must reach from the table to the rocket being launched. There are no exceptions. Anyone violating this rule will be permanently suspended.

  1. A ? E launches will be allowed as long as there is a NAR person who will function in the capacity of RSO/LCO as required under NAR safety rules at the A ? E range and all flyers are NAR or Tripoli members. A-E launches will be held at the area designated in the schematic below.

  2. No activity such as selling food, onsite vendors, classes, etc. may be carried out without the direct approval of the B.O.D.

  1. Parking, walking areas, launch stand location will be enforced by the Tripoli Prefect and NAR President as shown in the schematic below.

  2. The B.O.D. or the Prefect with the approval of the B.O.D. or the NAR President with the approval of the B.O.D. may designate a spectator area for viewing F-M launches to be attended by non-members who mush all sign waivors rendering the owner, the B.O.D., Tripoli and NAR blameless for any accident, injury, attack, etc. that may occur while the spectator(s) are on the field.
Reply to
Consumer Watch
Loading thread data ...

So they think they can keep an NAR member from asking permission from a land owner to fly at that location on a different day other than when they have a launch, even though they are covered under NAR? Wrong, and sounds like lawsuit waiting to happen, not to mention they didn't clarify use of public lands.

-Boomer

Reply to
Boomer

Some of the rules make sense, some don't.

Certainly are plenty of rules, though.

Reply to
Kurt Kesler

That's a weird rule - I guess people who mainly want to fly F through I motors (and not build a J+ size rocket for level 2 certification) aren't welcome at their field.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

Who is this group? I gather they are in the Boston area. Any one have any insight into what's really going on here?

I realize clubs require organizational rules, but this looks overboard. For comparison, here are NIRAs bylaws

formatting link
range rules
formatting link

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Reply to
Bob Kaplow

What he said.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

I have only one word for these rules, in general: "ANAL" A level 2 is required to launch F motors?? A member of the BOD is required to review the post flight data of an installed altimeter (item 22.) ?? However, good luck...

Fred

C> From: "Arnold Roquerre"

Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace

What are they trying to prove with this? That we don't need the government to regulate rocketry out of existence, we can do it all by ourselves? This is absolutely *insane.*

Reply to
By-Tor

Ouch! Especially considering that it says you're supposed to bring your own launch equipment further down....

The President and Prefect aren't part of the BoD????? Just exactly who IS on the BoD?

But they can't vote for the BoD....

But they can't vote for the BoD...

So that's ON TOP of the $45????

What the heck is the $45/year for????

L2 for F-I???? L3 for L????

So much for having a friend or family member help you carry out a larger project....

Hmmm... Launch card verification sounds like an RSO duty to me....

For failure to turn in FLIGHT CARDS????

Holy cow....

And the $45/yr plus local NAR/TRA dues is for what, exactly?

So, you're TRA L2 certified, huh? Sorry, but we don't have any NAR members present, so you're SOL on that C motor you and your son/daughter want to fly...

----------------------

Holy cow! I can understand some rules, but yeesh!

There's strict, then there's anal, then there's just plain control freakish!

I'm sure glad I don't live anywhere near there, where I might want to use THAT field!

-Kevin

Reply to
Kevin Trojanowski

There was a follow up message to this one that might help clarify things:

Re-organization overview As you know, the BOD has made an attempt to address the club concerns in this order:

1) Improve safety 2) reduce parking needs 3) free up BOD from field responsibilites 4) Turn over launch control to a NAR President (non-BOD member) & Tripoli Prefect (non-BOD member)

To this end we have a plan proposed which will meet these ends.

In summary, the plan separates the BOD from the launch activites, allowing member elected TRA and NAR representatives to run the launches. The TRA/NAR representatives must pay the $150 feild fee, collected from the members who show up at the beginning of the launch, in order to launch.

The plan separates the low power (under G) and high power (G+) launch sites. It requires that members bring in their own launch equiment but we will still have one central launch table and LCO.

Members may launch G+ impulse, non-mebers may not. Non-members may only approch the hi-power launch site to view from a safe viewing area.

The membership fee are increased to $45 (Individual) and $65 (family). The principle reason for the increase is to keep the club from growing which will in turn improve safety and reduce parking issues.

The BOD is aware that members have concerns and questions regarding the plan. To this end, the BOD would like to meet with the any prospective 2004 members instead of or after then next launch (Presently scheduled for this Sunday) and address the concerns and questions. The Plan is attached as a PDF file for your information.

Suggestions of where to meet on Sunday are welcome. IMHO, it is critical to the club that we have this meeting and that the turnout is good.

If the meeting happens, I will send out details via e-mial and hopefully we can post them on the web site too.

Notice: This summary was not reviewed by Arnold or Olivier so there may be errors.

Reply to
Consumer Watch

Agreed 100% Fred. So if you reverse the rules, can you go get a Level 2 cert with an Aerotech Mustang on an F-50? Level 3 on an L? Where does a Level 1 cert fit in the scheme? I don't see a place for it. You ought to be able to fly a G-80 or G-64 on a level nothing cert. Suspended for not following rule #22?

Sounds like it's really easy to get kicked out of that outfit.

-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1

Reply to
J.A. Michel

Certainly are plenty of rules, though.

Reply to
GCGassaway

What is the reason for these draconian rules? Seems we don't need the ATFE to give us grief; some of us do it well enough all by ourselves. Larry Lobdell, Jr.

Reply to
Larry Lobdell, Jr.

If you need to be L2 to fly an F - K (and therefore H & I) then how in the world do you ever cert L1? ;-)

This has to be a wind-up.

Reply to
Darren J Longhorn

Kevin T. wrote:

Reply to
RayDunakin

Intentionally trying to curb growth in the club, NAR, and TRA????????

So, if I were a member of that club, and wanted to get my L1, I'd be out of luck because a L2 is needed to launch F-K motors???????

Sounds like some one needs to step back and look at how counter productive their rules are. David NAR#79313

Reply to
Dlogan

This does seem kind of extreme. Our guidelines for SOLAR (South Louisiana Rocketry) are much simpler: (1) show up, (2) set pad up, (3) prep rocket, (4) launch rocket, and (5) repeat steps three and four! I guess that's why down here they call it the "big easy!" Joe A. SOLAR #8

Reply to
MODROCKET

Not only do you need a level 2 cert to fly F motors, by these rules, you cannot make a certification flight of any sort.

You can't make a level 1 certification flight because you must be level 2 to fly the required motor at "their" field.

You can't make a level 2 certification flight because you must already be certified level 2 to fly a level 2 motor. No exception for certifications noted. Given the otherwise anal-retentive nature of the rules, this cannot be an oversight.

Same for level 3.

Even worse, membership in NAR or TRA is REQUIRED to fly A-E motors. No mention is made of fractional "A" motors so I assume they simply are not allowed at all.

You MUST pay the $45/year extortion money to Frontier Rocketry before you can fly G-M motors on "their" field. Is there any other launch site in the country with this requirement? Sure there are launch fees, but required membership in the hosting club?

Even if this field were next door, I would never fly on it under these rules. But based on another post, that seems to be what is wanted. Discourage large groups from showing up. Good work. This will not only keep large groups from showing up, but also any group.

But this is a (mostly) free country and the BOD is free to shoot themselves in the foot if they want to.

W. E. Fred Wallace wrote: > I have only one word for these rules, in general: "ANAL" A level 2 is required to > launch F motors?? A member of the BOD is required to review the post flight data of an > installed altimeter (item 22.) ?? However, good luck... >

Reply to
David Schultz

WOW I wonder if the TALIBAN Rocketry society has this many rules.....

Looks like they might have gotten a bit carried away trying to address some issues in the past.....

L2 for F motors and UP..... I hope thats a TYPO..... So if you fly there you get to go from E to J before you can fly an F????? I don't think they mean it...... L1 fits where?????

Lighten up guys... aren't the ATF rules enough for you?????

Sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings.. but jeezz its supposed to be fun........suggest RULE #1 HAVE FUN SAFELY

PS if your writing the rules to address the behavior of a few individuals , spare yourself the grief... if they aren't conducting themselves properly now more rules will just make it worse because they will use them against you and the GOOD fliers you have.

Just my thoughts...... Bobby B

Reply to
bobbyb

snip

I don't think the header is exactly accurate. It seems more like they simply want to keep it exclusive. Why would anyone want to fly there? Let them have their rules and privacy and just fly some place else. They probably won't last too long in a closed society.

Randy

Reply to
Randy

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.