LOC PRECISION Information Release

LOC PRECISION announces the first Ready to Fly mid power kit "Cool Spool" is now shipping. This kit uses genuine Aerotech Motor Retention and comes
fully assembled with parachute installed- just add wadding and an F or G motor with a 4 second delay and have fun! See the kit in action this week at LDRS or visit the company website at www.locprecision.com for a preview. This is the perfect park flyer! Be the hit at your Scout launch with the noise smoke and fire of the Cool Spool - 150'-200' of pure fun. The LORDS OF CHAOS brand of ready to fly rockets is underway! Ask your dealer for one TODAY!
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That's not rocketry. What is it? Spoolery?
Why not an ruggedized RTF Bullet or something like that?
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I'm more curious about the 4 second delay and the 150' altitude.
Will this cause fires?
Motor ejection on or near the ground along with delay afterburn does not sound like a "park flyer" to me. no problem on a dry lakebed, but in a public park?
Obviously (or is it obvious?) the flyer must still observe the launch site dimensions in the Model Rocket Safety Code.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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Don't fret Fred, no need to wring hands or nash teeth.
I saw one of these fly yesterday, and it ejects a parachute at just the right time and lands safe.
All the children and pets in attendance were un-harmed from the event.
CD
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So, you did not provide specifics.
At what altitude did ejection occur?
Did it finally reach the ground after the delay afterburn was completely over?
What was the ground condition where you witnessed this? "Park"? "Dirt"?
-Fred Shecter
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So ?

My Eye balls say about a cool height that we could all see the total flight..

Yes
Green Grass park like conditions
CD
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Best post of the day award. :-)
Anthony J. Cesaroni President/CEO Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace http://www.cesaronitech.com / (941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota (905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

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You know, I know that children and pets will not be harmed by the rocket in flight, but I have seen Quest flying saucers modified for 29mm Aerotech RMS motors and flown with a G64-4W load. The ejection occurs uncomfortably low and the delay afterburn is still blazing as it hits the ground.
On a dry lakebed with the rod angled away from the crowd and cars it is not a problem.
In a park it could be a problem.
If there was a plug for the delay then there would be zero problem.
If only manufacturers offered such a "P" delay plug option. The R/C Glider and Saucer folks would devour that product.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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I build RCS reloads all the time that come with a delay but I need a plugged motor. If you read the directions, they tell you to fill the delay cavity with grease if you do not want to use the delay(not the exact wording, but close). Why do these people not do that?
-Aaron
Fred Shecter wrote:

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That's a simple answer: We're talking about Model Rockets launched in public parks, not High Power Rockets or Amateur (mix your own) Rocket Motors.
Model Rocket motors must be used per the manufacturers instructions. Aerotech RMS motors have delay modification instructions that are quite legal for Model Rockets, but I am unaware of any delay plugging or 'greasing' procedures approved for consumer use in their reloadable Model Rocket Motors.
And for the single use motors it is not possible without "altering" illegally.
That's why selling plugged single use motors and plug modules for the delay of RMS motors might make good business sense. of course, that's up to the business owner to evaluate and decide.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/Instructions/HP-RMS_Instructions/29mm/29_60-100_in_20050.pdf
Step 1-4 (figure 3) it states:
Fig.-3: Insert the delay charge assembly shown in Fig.-1 into the delay cavity, o-ring end first, until it is seated against the forward delay spacer. NOTE: When using a plugged forward closure ONLY, fill the opening in the forward delay spacer with grease prior to installing the delay charge assembly.
This is the official directions for the RMS 29/60-100 motor with reloads including: F37W F62T G54W G104T
None of these motors are high power, nor AM/EX.
Having a single-use plugged motor would be very nice, but they are very available for the RMS lines
-Aaron
Fred Shecter wrote:

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Yes and no.
That certainly is not a standard casing for the average Model Rocket consumer. The 29/40-120 does not permit this at all.
The G104 is an HPR motor. Of course, so is the G33.
I know what you are saying and hopefully you understand what I'm saying. I'm talking about average American consumers using the motors they buy in the local hobby shop or online through normal retailers.
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I do understand what you're saying and while its true that the 29/40-120 doesn't allow this, all the other reload cases 29mm and bigger do allow this. (AeroTech reload cases that is)
The original post was about a 29mm spool rocket. If you were to look at the total number or reloads for 29mm, I would venture that atleast half, if not more, use a reloading case other than the 29/40-120. (60, 100, 120, 180, 240, 360) Sure, most of these cases are HPR only, but that doesn't perclude them from use with this spool rocket. You would just have to have a cert and a waiver. Its possible to get a waiver for a park, so launching them at a park is very possible.
Is there a major need for plugged SU motors in the 29mm area? As far as I know (and I don't know much) there aren't any. Except for spool and pyramid rockets, is there a large request for plugged SU motors? I use a plugged forward closure on my dual deployment rockets, but other than that, I wouldn't use them much.
As a side question, is the delay modification that AeroTech supports allowed on the 29/40-120 reloads? If so, what is the shortest delay that you can modify a reload to use?
-Aaron
Fred Shecter wrote:

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http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/Instructions/RDK_Instructions/rms_delay_mod_inst.pdf
http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/customersite/resource_library/Catalogs_Flyers_Data_Sheets/aeroTech_delay_lengths.pdf
I had those links handy since I just printed 10 copies of each to go with the box full of G64-10W reloads I just picked up.
Definitely allowed to legally modify the Model Rocket RMS delays.
No info on those documents about an absolute minimum, but I assume that the shortest production delay is the shortest safe delay. In other words, my assumption is that if a -4, -7 and -10 are sold, you can alter the -7 or -10 down to a -4 safely, but anything less than a -4 might not have enough delay propellant left to retain combustion chamber pressure safely.
Of course, Gary could chime in and either confirm or deny that.
Once again, I understand what you're saying and I re-iterate: "I know what you are saying and hopefully you understand what I'm saying. I'm talking about average American consumers using the motors they buy in the local hobby shop or online through normal retailers."
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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You can make a -P out of any normal reload by leaving out the BP and filling the BP well with some grease and wadding.
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Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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If you read my many previous messages in this thread, you would see that I keep repeating certain key phrases. things like "average American consumer" and only using or modifying motors if allowed to by the manufacturer.
What you describe is not something an average American consumer would know about. They would also not know what to do with the leftover black powder. The instructions for consumer Model Rocket RMS motors do not say anything about filling with grease and wadding. And will the grease and wadding stop delay afterburn from touching the ground?
As we have already discovered/discussed, the RMS High Power casings have plugged forward closures available for those who wish to fly with those motors. I do not think this RTF rocket tells the consumer that they must only use those motors in that manner.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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Well, if you would READ Fred, this RTF rocket uses a parachute and so needs a delay and ejection charge.
Only giving back what you post out, sorry.
CD
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Fred
If you fly one indoors it will likely cause a fire - definitely not recommended - these odd rocks pop their chutes at or just below apogee - never had one hit the ground not under chute (except the prototypes which we didn't put in chutes for...) Not like a Snitch or other non-chuted things.
We decided to put parachutes in them to keep the risk of problems low.
Just be smart, follow normal NAR rules for flying - Aerotech rules for motors and use at least an Estes E pad and have fun. Daddy always told me "Don't knock it till u try it..makes u look smarter in the long run.." DOC
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Thanks for that answer. No problem with delay afterburn because they do not plummet out of the sky. They have a parachute and that slows the descent so there is nothing left burning by the time it lands.
Just we all wanted to hear. Thanks again for expalining it clearly.
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Well Fred, you were told that long ago if you had read the post ;)
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