NAR BoD declines Wickman leadership in legislative action

As I said, the diehards will be left, but not much else.

In my case, it was an 11 year old son that helped push me into L1 and L2 when I did. He's now 18 and doesn't attend a rocket launch unless some serious hardware is being flown. That's the reality for many. Young kids are content with Estes rockets, big kids want big rockets. (and I realize that I'm generalizing a great deal, but overall, I think that most would agree with the sentiment)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

My son's interest in rocketry got me re-involved. We attended a Community Ed class together (Dad and Me - Model Rocketry). He was already hooked...then I took him to our first highpower launch (a 2 day launch at Three Oaks MI)....and then I was hooked....and then my daughter got hooked as well...

High power is a definetly a catalyst for creating us BAR's. It is what pulled most of us back into the hobby. I will continue to fly no matter what the outcome of the litigation and/or legislation. Hybrids.... massive clusters....what ever it takes....but if HPR goes away I feel pretty confident that I will no longer have the same zeal for flying. Nor for that matter will my kids....BOTH of whom built a special project for LDRS this year and are already talking about next year...

Mark A Palmer TRA 08542 L3

Imagine? It is the defacto way of life in rocketry both at NAR and TRA. Rocketeers in associations are nothing, if not hard core zealots!!

Jerry

Sorry to say I have been pointing out we have been on that slippery slope since at least 1994.

Jerry

Because he is a politician and TRA and NAR represent the central organized constituency of the bill? Because they are the most well funded identified spoilers? Well,,, outside of the DoJ and the BATFE of course . . . . .

But you have heard that broken record before regarding their wacky

Jerry

The castration of the bill is purely the fault of Senators Hatch and Kohl. There is no way the bill could have gotten through the Judiciary Committee without them knowing about it, and they would have been opposed to it regardless of any TRA/NAR involvement. You and/or John W. continue to ignore this fact and instead blame TRA/NAR.

"Close personal terms" or not, John W is still just a private citizen. Anything that can be communicated to him can be communicated to any other citizen. It astonishes me that _this_ point still needs to me made.

Probably for the same reason that he thanked Sen. Hatch and the Judiciary Committee for "all their hard work" on S724... There are conventions and courtesies to be observed in these matters.

-dave w

Was that before or after you invented the internet? ;)

There'll always be a few people who are into that A-D contest stuff, but they are a tiny percentage of rocketry.

Without the contests, how many people would actually travel hundreds of miles to attend MR launches? If all people wanted is to socialize, they'd take up some other hobby that has more people and doesn't require travel.

I don't want to get into another long thread started by Wickman foolishness, but you are wrong that "noone" will travel for MR launches. "Some" will still need a VERY large field to fly competition rocketry. I've walked a mile to get back a winning B streamer duration model. You might not realize it but the Geneseo, NY field was originally secured as a model rocket competition field before it was used for HPR.

Here's another example of following Wickman down the "merry path". Nobody is "killing" HPR, not even the BATFE. Get a LEUP or find a friend with one. For *some* people who can't get a LEUP and don't have a club or friends, they're stuck with LMR motors just as they've always been.

Just keep flying rockets (of all kinds), have fun, and ignore the FUD.

I flew experimental HPR last weekend and it didn't require the blessing of the NAR or TRA or ARSA.

-John DeMar

If you only hang out around high-power flyers, you're skewing your sense of reality. Most people who fly rockets are not flying above G and are not members of any organization. The only thing that has changed for them is the rumors that were spread around about model rocketry being banned by the Safe Explosives Act. Nothing has changed for them, but they are being scared off by the FUD. That is a shame and a disservice to the hobby. I run across these people all the time in the hobby stores, newcomers to local launches, and students/parents in the outreach programs I'm involved in. Who will take the blame for this misinformation? Certainly not the egomaniac who originated it, but the rest of us should stop reinforcing the FUD.

-John DeMar

Like insulting your allies? Like demanding that only one person is smart enough to lead the effort? Like insisting on no compromises? Conventions and courtesies you say?

Come on Jerry, I expect a quote of 55.141-a-8 or something from S&T or about clowns in little cars or ANYTHING other than a committee transcript or letter on how Kyte's involvement went counter to Enzi's wishes.

I also expect Izzy to pontificate about how useless such a disclosure would be since nobody would listen (thereby avoiding the truth that no such evidence exists) and that he knows people who know things that they can't say.

For the record (before Jerry calls me an apologist for _______) I think Wickman's technical contributions to this effort are impressive. He certainly knows the science of rocket propulsion. When plays the role of an Engineer he is very convincing. I'd even go so far as to say that Jerry knows his stuff too. I do not think that either one of them know how to move a bill through a hostile (or at list unfriendly) congress. Expert witnesses can be very effective used as such. When they start to call the jury and counsel names and try to run the show, their effectiveness dwindles.

What exactly would cause HPR to die? No form of rocketry is proposed to be banned. I don't agree with the LEUP requirements, but HPR is not being eliminated. Get a LEUP or find a friend with one. And keep flying no matter what the outcome of the BATFE overregulation is.

-John

We acknowledge the FACTs that TRA/NAR failed in responding in a timely fashion to a number of calls for action, when they did respond to a subset of those initiatives they did so to a lesser extent than what was called for.

I acknowledge the FACT that John Kyte was conducting "discussions" with staffers of various senate offices. As Senator Enzi is not on the committee, the H-K "substitution" was not expected, nor was its introduction outside of the published agenda. Conspiciously, John Kyte knew of the 0.9 lb limit prior to the presentation of the Hatch-Kohl abortion. TRA also had a copy of the DoJ letter to Hatch. Yet TRA did not see it useful to share any of this information with John.

As I was not with John Kyte in those staffer meetings and so can substantively state that he offered or supported the 0.9 lb limit, there is evidence of his participation to that effect in a private venue which confidentiality I am not at liberty to breach.

At best John Kyte acting at the behest of TRA/NAR has been negligient and obstructionist. At worst he torpedoed the rocketry activity that does not fall under the TRA/NRA/NFPA scope of 'authority'.

ah, no. A senator, like any "private citizen" can share confidences and collaborate with whomever he chooses to trust (excluding of course matters of national security or otherwise restricted information). It is understandable that he would be averse to sharing strategies that involve resources or actions that are outside the realm of what can be prudently associated with a Senate office. Can you spell "p-o-l-i-t-i-c-s" ?

TRA/NAR should have offered no comment by virtue of plausible implications to the lawsuit, and allowed members to act their concience in response to John's calls for action. They should NOT have delayed or otherwise impeded those actions.

really? tell me this, in the final analysis what precisely was the effect of John Kytes involvement?

I don't think TRA/NAR want LEUPS either. I think they want to survive. Rocketry activity not within the scope of their oversight is fair game for regulation.

It has long been since time to hold them responsible for their actions. The BoD response to my agenda item demonstrates that more mischief can be expected from them, to which they will also be held accountable.

- iz

You must be smoking something else to continue posting garbage to forums where you serve no purpose other than to posture yourself and John Wickman to the front of the discussion. Get the drift from the responses here: you are an unwelcomed troll that only serves your self ego and supply more FUD to the issue.

Don't bother replying for my account. Back into the trash filter you go.

-John DeMar

Just like Jerry is NOT helping either. If it wasn't for this bullshit, Jerry would have NOTHING to talk about. All he does is bitch how bad things are and when you ask him to REALLY fix it, he gives excuses why you are wrong.

Right Jerry!?!

KMJK

Whether you agree or not does NOT matter. You are COMPELLED to follow the law. Right now the law says it is a crime to get a LEUP for propellants.

PURE FUD.

I think you have a point there. That is why stealth and rush were the failed strategies.

Jerry

BREACH OF FIDUCIARY DUTY

JOHN KYTE NAR BOD AGAINST THE ASSOCIATION PRINCIPALS GIVING JOHN KYTE INSTRUCTIONS