Since this is ON TOPIC, I'll respond to the ferrin critter. It doesn't matter if you're in the majority or not if you've been demagogued and we have certainly been demagogued. We're the 21st century equivalent to the Black Plague. ;-)
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers
Many people have said the same to/about me. My posts may be a bit agressive :)
Key word caring, not knowing.
CHEEKY BASTARDS!
Read this:
-------Original Message------- From: "Bark B. Mudnick" Sent: 08/24/03 05:03 PM To: snipped-for-privacy@oscillationoverthruster.com Subject: NAR Board Meeting Results - Elect BB to permanent god-emporer status
Dear Mr. BB,
The Board reviewed your request to volunteer to serve as god-emporer over the NAR, with all rights and privileges pertaining thereto, including free motors for life, first pick of all female members as concubines, and one diamond, emerald and ruby-encrusted crown complete with two beer holders and those clear loopy straws through which you can see the beer go swirling round, whoopdy-whoopdy-whoop!
The Board determined that the Association cannot grant such authority to you at this time, while serving the best interests of its membership.
Kind regards, Bark B. Mudnick, President National Association of Rocketholics
Folks, I think you're all missing the point. Win, lose, or draw, No matter what happens in the Senate, and House, It is a pretty safe bet that *Basic* model rocketry has a future. By basic I mean Estes type stuff. In case it's been forgotten NAR was dragged kicking and screaming into High Power Rocketry. Before HPR, when the biggest thing around was an F motor, NAR and everybody was happy with what they had. . . they didn't know of anything better. When HP started to emerge and Tripoli came on the scene, everything changed. NAR Had compettition. Like I said, If we lose in the House and Senate, and they Kill HPR, You'll still be able to buy a three pack of C6-3's at Walmart for five bucks. Tripoli will have no more reason to exist, all the more reason that NAR will be happy. Now it's ARSA coming along wanting to "help." Same thing as before. Why do you think Estes is sitting on the sidelines? They have a future either way.
No offense to Bunny or the NAR Bod or NAR as an organization. Rocketry wouldn't exist as it does today without NAR, but I Don't think that the NAR BoD would be too disappointed if we lost HPR and went back to the old ways. On a positive, note, it would foster more spacemodeling championships and such. Naram, NSL, Narcon, Team America Challenge, Cub Scout programs, Young Astronauts, etc. will still continue as before. NAR will be happy either way.
What happens will happen.
-Chr$ NAR 79536 L1 and holding. . .
I absolutely agree this is the perception. I also point out Bundick claims the opposite despite the perception and the acts he engages in supporting the perception.
Jerry
Some may not agree with it, but I think the BoD made the right decision. The board has been elected to represent NAR, to make decisions as to what it does and does not endorse, what its public statements are, etc.
By fully giving that away to someone else, they would be derelict in their duties as members of the board.
IMNSHO, John's decision to post this is in bad taste, and nothing more than an attempt to create ill will.
-Kevin
Their on the right path , just need more friends & a whole lot more money . Don't forget who introduced the bill in the first place . Now they'll get off the bandwagon cause the wheels are flat.
Can we have a recall vote ?
JD
I respectifully disagree.
The only question at hand when the NAR was considering its intial involvement in HPR activity in the 1980's and 1990's was whether the activity could be conducted in safety. Once those safety concerns were satisfied, the NAR fully embraced HPR activities within its structure and service programs. The NAR Board recognizes full well that HPR, as currently practiced and supported by NAR members, is a valuable and welcome addition to the Association.
Any suggestion that either I or the Board would be happier or satisfied if HPR went away are completely unfounded and false.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org
So the national association of rocketry, not toy paper rocketry, will be endorsing amateur rocketry tomorrow since its safety record exceeds that of model rocketry?
However unfortunate your toleration of a 0.9 lb per motor limit and 25 pound per user limit might be. No matter how unfortunate your demand that consumers, vendors, and manufacturers get ATF permits might be, despite 27 CFR 55.141-a-8, and of course that annoying NAR/ATF lawsuit wherein NAR and TRA themselves advocate the EXISTING LAW as cited above as being in full force and effect.
Hello? Is there a vacant brain in this room?
Jerry
Setting aside the fact that you are piling on and the decision was fully predictable, what about the many other proposals set before the BoT. What of those?
Jerry
No offense to Bunny or the NAR Bod or NAR as an organization. Rocketry wouldn't exist as it does today without NAR, but I Don't think that the NAR BoD would be too disappointed if we lost HPR and went back to the old ways. On a positive, note, it would foster more spacemodeling championships and such. Naram, NSL, Narcon, Team America Challenge, Cub Scout programs, Young Astronauts, etc. will still continue as before. NAR will be happy either way.
This is a major problem; ARSA asks to have it "their" way. NAR just says no.
Factions. There are not enough of "us" in the first place that we can afford to be further divided into these separate camps.
ARSA - As a citizen, the Federal Laws you are promoting affect ME; a rocketeer who happens to be a NAR member. You want my help (money, letter writing)? Show some ability to work with those whom your actions will impact even if they are not 100% in agreement with your position.
NAR - You have my full support as a member to provide a counter-offer to the ARSA request. Or to make a new proposal to ARSA on a cooperative effort. Hell, I would contribute money to a joint effort at almost anything.
Is the issue as cut-and-dried as the original post indicates? No, probably not (I hope not, at least). But the view from my level just shows rocketeers fighting rocketeers even as the thumbscrews are being tightened on both by a common foe. Surely (Shirley?), there is something that both organizations can put some resources towards which will be of benefit to all.
Its past time for blame and finger pointing. Action will speak louder than words.
Please, please don't make me quote Rodney or a 60's rock song.
Is the issue as cut-and-dried as the original post indicates? No, probably not (I hope not, at least).
Sorry but I can't sit on the sidelines here......
If we lose HPR Sport Rocketry in the US will be much poorer because of it.
George Rachor NAR Secretary NAR #21932 Level 2 TRA #04769
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Chr$) writes:
-- ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. snipped-for-privacy@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http:rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX
NAR will both dwindle down to a few hundred diehard competitors and MR fliers in a short period of time if HPR is killed. For many of us adults, once you've seen an "M" fly, it's tough to be satisfied with C6-3's exclusively. Noone will travel hundreds of miles to attend organized MR launches when they can launch the same rockets in a nearby park. I fear that without HPR, the majority of adults that keep the NAR a living entity will lose interest and move on to other hobbies. Personally, I'll dump more money into drag racing and rocketry will become a fond memory if HPR is killed.
Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers
Jerry, Here's the phone number of the BATFE agent that did my last interview.
313-259-8348, ask for Sandy. Tell her that you have a ton of APCP in your garage and it's OK because 27 CFR 55.141-a-8 says it's OK. After you get released on bail (if you can make bail), let me know what they charged you with and how many years you'll be away from RMR.Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers
I'm not "blaming" either group for the result. ARSA left the NAR with little choice by asking for deferral, the NAR responds in kind.
The problem is obvious. A solution, even a partial one, is the difficult issue.
Have any ideas on how to generate some cooperation? Or is it a lost cause?
Yes, it's bait.
I have a better idea. Do what I have sugested to many others.
Put "the Orange Book" in front of her face, cite 55.141-a-8 and ask her to justify IN WRITING why she wants you to put exempt materials on your log. If you will not even do THAT, ignore me. I did it and it worked.
Jerry
This claim is false. Before I popularized HPR that you now so love, I hosted NAR contests and attended NAR contests hundreds of miles away. I believe it is more about a group social experience than the physical size of the motor and rocket.
I hope you disagree so you will be of decreasing relevence in the future.
See ya!
Jerry
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