NAR BoD declines Wickman leadership in legislative action

Well if you have been channeled to RMR, I suggest you channel your tactics, because you will surely be passed by. Not matter what you have done.

-- KMJK

I predicted:

I predicted > >

Neither party has met a tax that needed reducing. The only time they reduce "rates" is when they think it will increase overall revenue.

Jerry

Even if this were the case the "average particle size" is far greater than 45µ. Furthermore, it is "very inhibited".

AP with an average particle size of 90µ actually has small amounts of under 45µ in it. It is the custom to look at average particle size. So the example you cite makes a doublecheck necessary but you will find it passes even the ATF definition of what conststiutes an item on the "list of explosives", notwithstanding whatever lies they give, verbally or by "interpretation".

And we have hard evidence they lie.

Jerry

It is a violation of 27 CFR to put non-explosives in an explosives magazine.

I believe the theory is to make the magazine easier to move or unload in case of emergency.

Jerry

How is it a CRIME to have a permit and not use it for low explosives?

Isn't that like saying it's illegal to get a driver's license and ride the bus?

Joel. phx

I gotta agree with John here. There are several die-hard fliers who will be at every launch with beautifully built model rockets. Those guys aren't driving an hour to the field just because of HPR. I don't know if those guys will continue as 'a club' but it's likely they would continue to sit for 2 hours to fly at Rainbow Valley. I can't imagine people would drive from all over the country to just fly Estes though (competition aside). Plus the number of HPR who don't use "explosives" has doubled in the last year or so (in our area), so it's likely an alternative 'club' would crop up.

I don't recall Wickman saying that HPR would be dead if the legislation didn't pass. None the less it's good to see that you think Mark can't come to his own conclusions. People had been able to buy HPR motors instate so they weren't 'stuck' with LMR motors previously (whether or not they stored them legally is a different issue).

Joel. phx

Yes I can. Do YOU understand that there is a whole lot more to politics than what is written in the standard civics book? When you head to Washington, you don't get to play by an idealized notion of 'fair play.' You play by the arcane rules of the Senate. If you don't, you get to go home empty-handed.

That was the deal we were handed with the Hatch-Kohl substitute for S.724. We could either take what they gave us, or get nothing. Typically, on an issue such as this, which is seen by the Senate as a relatively small thing, it means you don't get another shot in that session of Congress, at the very least.

Mark Johnson NAR Trustee

Probably not. NAR was around long before HPR but I don't see anything going away, including HPR, just more restricted. Individuals may consider more regs not worth the effort, so they may go the way of the dinosaur. Those of us who've been around the hobby for 35+ years, will still be flying as long as we can get motors. Never tried to make my own but I might some day, if need be. I'd rather buy them.

I've been flying since 1968, never joined a club but I've been to club launches and think it's great there are so many. There's room for more too. Rocketry will be with us for a long time to come. The question is, in what form? The hobby needs ALL forms, from the micro's to the STS program.

We may change but we ain't going away.

Randy

Too bad the government doesn't agree with that. What the law says, and what is actually enforced, are two different things. The law says propellents and PADS are exempt from explosives regs. The government says they are not, and they have the power to fine and/or jail people who do things contrary to what they are enforcing. It's wrong, it's immoral, it's unethical, it's unconstitutional. But it's a fact, and until that fact is changed we are stuck with it.

it is an unfortunate man indeed who gauges his worth by the opinions of small-minded people

- iz

Izzy, please pass this on to your superiors:

I request that ARSA pass an agenda item that they cooperate fully with the NAR and TRA on legislative matters.

Please let me know Izzy what the response to my request is. Also at what meeting date my request above will be voted on. And later, what the decision of that vote is.

- George Gassaway

The fact is most letters delivered in support of both the NPRM and legislation were written by NAR and TRA members. I thank all of them for their active support of this effort.

Additional letters were undoubtedly written by members of other organizations, including AMA, EAA, NSS, AIAA, IEAS, RRS and ARSA. I thank all of them for writing too.

Who issued the call, or how people found out about it does not matter relative to the ultimate goal.

Anybody keeping score about either how it got done or which organizations did what to make it happen is wasting their time (and the bandwidth of this newsgroup).

Even political novices, like myself, recognize the most effective and efficient campaign will be generated by constituents. And the last time I checked, the representative in Congress were directly responsible to their constitutents.

As an example, I offer the two direct contacts made on this issue to Sen. Durbin, by Illinois rocketeers. I believe those actions resulted in Sen. Durbin's signing on as a co-sponsor of S.724.

I don't believe for a minute that hundreds or even thousands of letters from non-Illinois residents would have had the same effect. In fact, such letters could have exactly the opposite effect, that of irritating the member or his staff, such that they don't support the legislation.

Undermining your staff is not a good way to build teamwork or improve morale in the Senate offices.

Misdirecting outside political resources, which the NAR and TRA are in this case, is counterproductive.

Pursuing multiple paths in the Senate is not a good way to build long term political partnerships, a necessary currency in the Senate, for passing legislation.

To the readers of this newsgroup, some additional points for reflection.

People are free to do or not do whatever they want on legislative matters.

We are very small fish in a very large and complex Washington, DC pond, in need of the professional help of John Kyte to help us get a bill passed out of the Congress and signed by the President. Succeeding at this on our own and on a shoestring isn't going to cut it.

We have to get S.724 passed out of the Senate, period. Anyone suggesting there are other options there are seriously out of touch with the realities of the Senate's schedule and procedures.

The NAR has been completely upfront and forthcoming with members and others about our plans and our progress. We will continue to follow that path as the Congress returns to work in September. I hope you'll consider continuing your excellent support of the legislative effort as we move forward.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

This is a complete falsehood.

As I have pointed out when questioned about it here and in other forums before. John Kyte is under contract to the NAR and TRA, and works only at the direction of Dick Embry and I. And at no time did he act in the manner alleged above.

As NAR President, I have a legal and moral obligation to act in the best interests of the Association, as limited by the NAR By Laws, policy and directive of the NAR Board of Trustees. Since this legislation has an effect on the Association, I and the Board chose to act. We will continue to exercise that obligation whenever and wherever it is necessary for us to do so to protect the interests of NAR members.

As I have posted previously, John works for us and offers his expertise, time and counsel and move solely at our direction.

NAR members need to clearly understand that I accept my accountability and responsibilities to serve very seriously. Of course we're accountable. As I personally have been since 1975 when I first accepted an NAR volunteer position. This situation is no different for me than anything else I've done for the past 28 years.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

Yes it has, for non-easyaccess. The difference is that in-state purchases now need to be tracked by the dealer. If you're at a launch and buy your motors (as many always have done without an LEUP or storage), you now need someone with an LEUP to help you out. That is the only difference. The rest is FUD.

And it's the FUD that has more affect on diminishing the numbers of flyers and products.

Who said anything about tiny rockets? What part of "all kinds" did you miss? ;-)

-John

And I'm sure my ARSA membership request will be complete by then so I can influence the BoD's decision.

Oh. Wait. I think my membership request is complete. I didn't pass the borg test.

Image that. Jerry and I have someth> Izzy, please pass this on to your superiors:

He didn't state you "gave instructions to Kyte".

He said, "there is evidence of his participation to that effect in a private venue" which could easily be true without your command to do so.

What was objectionable about the original language that required your input?

How is that standard triggered by the original language?

Do his neglegence, if any, is your "fault", right?

I do not see how in any meaningful way, except perhaps publishing "headstone" results in "Model Rocketeer" which itself is whatever you choose to write from your perspective. Propoganda, or at minimum, single perspective speech. Not "accountability".

PRS, RRI

Welcome to the post-NAR/TRA HPR market.

Before the meglomaniacs became leaders the saying was rightfully, "We are family!"

Jerry