Actually it wouldn't even be very good for Jerry either, since such a
deal can't be verified and conflicts with ATF policy. It's like having
an "arrangement" with a single DMV employee who says he'll let you
drive without a license just because he likes you. Any other DMV
employee is unlikely to support that deviation from the law, nor will a
I think it does accomplish something. It helps prevent the ignorant
and/or gullible from believing Jerry's crap about how TRA is screwing
the hobby. It also might save someone getting busted as a result of
following bad advice.
All that would prove is something changed. Not how to get proper
treatment in the first place.
Getting people busted is easy. Setting an example for others to follow
successfully is hard, especially if the universe is filled with critics
who have never walked a single yard in your (exempt-mfg) shoes and never
intend to in the future either.
Let's review. First you make up a speculative story. Then you say why
that story is bogus, and in both cases imply it is somehow remotely
related to me.
No and no.
Then ignore what I admit and state DOES apply to me.
Your myopic world is interesting indeed.
"Look how many times Ray has been verifiably (citing specifics) called a
liar by several folks here and the label sticks well."
"I'll give you that..."
- Phil Stein
"No one was ruining it while Jerry was away.
But they promptly resumed as soon as he came back.
People who are unable to unwilling to control and/or take
responsibility for their own actions usually blame their target. 'She
was asking for it because she was dressed like that'."
"Hear yah, that's been my manner for years of being online. I learned
loooooong ago *never* to take online ascii diareha too serious. And
thats exactly what noise is, ascii diareha. Actually if anything I find
all this thread hijacking and noise pathetic. Maybe rmr needs Dolby :)"
- Ted Novak
We know Jerry is not telling the truth. His getting busted by ATF would
only be the result of the fact, he ignored the truth, just as he did
with DOT. However, seeing he no longer claims to have motors for sale,
or openly admits to making motors for sale in commerce, he may well be
doing nothing more than, "well", just taking liberties with the truth..
It is also evident, "the gullible and/or ignorant believers of JI crap
are not just limited to the newer members of the rocket comunity,
judging by the remarks of some long time rmr posters, if only a few".
Nope, just examining the few possible explainations for your refusal to
provide proof to back up your claims. There are only so many viable
1. You really did get an ATF agent to agree that manufacturing rocket
motors does not require ATF permits.
2. You got one specific agent to "look the other way", allowing you to
operate without the required permits.
3. You made the whole thing up in an effort to con people into thinking
you're operating legally when in fact you are not.
If scenario number one is true, then there is no reason not to provide
proof. In fact, providing verifiable evidence of this would go a long,
long way to winning our case against the ATF. Yet you adamantly refuse
to offer any evidence at all, not even the name of the agent. And on
the other hand, there is overwhelming evidence that the ATF would not
tell you that permits aren't required. The Orange Book says that
manufacturers of exempt materials DO need permits; and the ATF has
fought in court to support their policy that rocket motors are not
If the second scenario is true, then it's utterly useless to anyone. It
violates both the regs and ATF policy, it can't be used by anyone else,
it won't be supported by other agents, it won't hold up in court, and
it doesn't provide proof of compliance necessary to get your motors
The third scenario needs no explanation, and best fits the facts.
What you "admit and state" is not proof of anything, especially when it
conflicts with known facts.
Ray, he doesn't need to provide you proof of anything...
you're the one that is saying all these things about
"illegality" and stuff... that means that you are the
one who has to prove anything. Nothing is "illegal" in
this nation unless it can be proven so to the satisfaction
of a judge & jury.
Now wipe your chin. You've got cop-juice all over it,
mister "I don't care what the law says; all that really
counts is how to keep from being Hassled by The Fuzz..."
Jerry could be the "bubba".. Heck - it seems he's had a history of trying
to give it to others "where the sun don't shine"! :)
Ask his former partners!
I still find the transcript of Jerry's re-enstatement "hearing" one of the
funniest things I've ever read in this hobby! And it wasn't TRA's fault!
JI wouldn't admit he has two arms, much less that each arm had a hand and
It was in the TRA Report, what, 2 years back. It was better than SNL in the