Re: Republic Aircraft Question



The G was a straight-wing upgrade of the E, whilst the F was swept wing. I think the G went into production mainly because the F was delayed by development issues until about 1953.
Mark Schynert
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wrote:

(snip)
I suddenly wondered why the

The F-84F was not intended to be designated in the F-84 series. It was, in fact, orginally designated as the YF-96A. Changing the designation to F-84F has been explained as a political sleight-of-hand move to make it easier to obtain funding from Congress. The thinking apparently was that Congress would more readily provide funding for a progressive development of a tried and proven aircraft rather than a more risky new generation. A similar approach was taken for the F-86D Sabre which was originally designated YF-95A. Given this view of the world, one wonders why the F-101 Voodoo series wasn't the F-88B, F-88C, F-88D, etc. After all, the F-106 Delta Dart was originally the F-102B before common sense returned to this process. Even today, however, this mentality has resurfaced with the F/A-18 designation - a clear attempt to manipulate Congress into providing funding for a "multi-role" capability. So why didn't we have the F/A-100 Super Sabre, the F/A-105 Thunderchief, and the F/A-4 Phantom II? The F-4 Phantom, of course, was originally the F-110. This change, however, we can't attribute to funding motives - it was strictly due to the intellectual shortcomings of Defense Secretary Robert McNamara. He just couldn't deal with the differences in Air Force and Navy designation systems. Rather than make the effort to understand, he simply decreed all designations were to be standardized so he wouldn't be confused. And thus history was rewritten . . .
Matt Mattingley
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Well, what was the logical basis for virtually identical aircraft having completely different designations? In fact, I would not be surprised to learn that, pre-McNamara, the USN and USAF used different part numbers for the same piece of metal. Would a desire to use a single tracking number for a part be evidence of "intellectual shortcomings" or logistical pragmatism?
KL
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WmB wrote:

Chek probably doesn't know what a wonderful intellect McNamara had. Had he had his way every car Ford built would have had the same basic dashboard just to cut costs. I can see a logical reason for changing the designations and it wasn't the first time the system had been changed but in no way does that make me "pro-McNamara"!
Bill Banaszak, MFE
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And what if sales had remained the same after the change?
KL
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:34:45 GMT, "Greg Heilers"

There's not much by Larry Niven that I wouldn't recommend. Perhaps "Achilles choice", and I have to be in ten right frame of mind for the "dream park" books. I've also heard bad things about "destiny's road" too, though I haven't read it myself.
Many of his books I reread every 5 years or so.
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Microsoft?
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add protector and the ringworld engineer stories. those are also known space stories. another great series for fantasy modeling would be kieth laumer's retief and bolo stories. someday i will scratch build a groaci.
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:25:15 +0000, e wrote:

I have always dreamed of scratchbuilding some "General Products"-hulled ship.....but that DANG transparent hull!...lol....I have not found the shampoo bottle yet, that is "just right"!
;o)
--

Greg Heilers
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:37:34 GMT, "Greg Heilers"

Difficult to vac form without seams too, I would guess! Perhaps a skilled glass blower could handle the job? Then the problem would be reduced to building the innards "ship in a bottle style" through a tiny hole. ...and you would _still_ have problems building the whole set to a consistent scale, due to relative sizes.
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amazon and half.com there are zillions of on-line book search engines. i found haledeman's forever trilogy as a set in hardback for 10 bucks.
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:56:54 -0400, William H. Shuey wrote:

Especially if you can score a first edition hardback of "Ringworld". This had the major-league-snafu, of Niven having the Earth rotate in the wrong direction!...
"D'Oh!"
:o)
--

Greg Heilers
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actually, he has the sun revolving around the earth.
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:43:01 +0000, e wrote:

I've never actually seen this edition; but I assume that the "mistake" is in Chapter 1, where Louis Wu is celebrating his birthday. At the stroke of midnight, he teleports "one time zone over" so that he can celebrate for one more hour. He does this repeatedly. I assume that before he corrected it, Niven has him going in the wrong direction. Is this correct?
--

Greg Heilers
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now i gotta find it...
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you're right, it was burroughs that screwed it up in the magazine print of princess of mars. niven had the rotation backawards.
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:02:23 +0000, e wrote:

Thanks. Like I said, I have never seen this first edition. Niven spoke of it in one of his compilations where he detailed his collection of stories: their chronological order, what "series" they belonged to, etc. It is here where he "teased" the reader by mentioning his mistake. He never went into detail, but this was the only obvious place I could come up with.
Another "can't live without" compilation: "Neutron Star", which gives the reader an excellent general education on the Puppeteers, and General Products.
--

Greg Heilers
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the book has a different dust jacket than the second edition but the same cover and print. i suspect the publisher yanked a few. neutron star rules.
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wrote

McNamara's decision had nothing to do with "logistical pragmatism." It had everything to do with McNamara's emporer complex. He had no respect or tolerance for military tradition, did not trust the military leadership, and ignored its advice. He put his trust instead in the young "whiz kids" who had never done anything except count beans, been professional academics, or worked at Ford Motor Company. McNamara was a graduate of Berkeley and Harvard. Ouch. He made a name for himself at Ford as a member of the "statistical control experts team." Bean counter terrorists. And Kennedy put them in charge of the Defense Department. To refer to the Navy's Phantom as an F4H-1 and the Air Force's version as the F-110 offended McNamara's bean counter mentality. This is the same bean counter McNamara who spent billions trying to make the F-111 a carrier fighter. I guess there are beans and then there are beans. This is the same McNamara who was the architect of the Vietnam gradualism doctrine, placing military targets off-limits, designating geographical sanctuaries for the VC, prolonging the war by years. I jogged past the Vietnam War Memorial this morning. I wonder how many names on that wall are there because of the leadership of Robert McNamara? When Tricky Dick and Mel Laird finally turned the military loose, the war was over in 11 days. Having spent 24 years in the Air Force, I hope my antipathy for McNamara isn't showing through. My reference to his intellectual shortcomings has to do with his complete inability to grasp any concept in the abstract or variations of a common theme - if you couldn't categorize it or quantify it with a number, it had no meaning to him. Hence his fixation with the aircraft designation numbering system. By the way, it wasn't the F4H-1/F-110 anomoly that irritated him - it was the F4H/F4D designations. Two F-4s! Oh the humanity! So the Skyray became the F-6A and everything was put into its proper order.
I gather from your comments that the possibility that the Air Force and Navy might use different part numbers for common equipment items is offensive. Welcome to government. To carry your views to their logical conclusion, we should do away with the separate branches and just have one military service. That would certainly solve that part number problem. Say, didn't the Canucks already try that? And can you believe Wal-Mart and Target use different inventory numbers for Coleman coolers? Who let those guys out of nomenclature jail?
By the way. To characterize the naval and air force F-4s as "virtually identical aircraft" would likely generate another whole thread of opinions. Then, of course, we'd have to throw in the British Phantoms as "virtually identical aircraft." And then those Germans! And where do the Brits get off with those FG and FGR designations? Weren't they paying attention to Big Bob? Boy that must have grated on his nerves. To think the McNamara nomenclature police had no jurisdiction outside the colonies. And I'll bet those unruly Brits have a whole different set of part numbers!
Second by the way. I'll bet you like the designated hitter rule don't you?
Matt Mattingley
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