Correct American terminology

Engine driver = engineer Shunting engine = switch engine/switcher

Shunting = switching Shunter = switchman

This terminology is somewhat dated, but is fine for use up to about the mid-eighties. Presently there are usually only two people on a crew, the engineer and the conductor. The engineer operates the locomotive in accordance with instructions from the crewmember executing the movement out on the ground.

Charles

Charles Crocker spake thus:

So what is a "hostler" (hosteler?)? And is there a name for the person who attends to a switch? Wouldn't

*they* be the "switchman"?

David Nebenzahl wrote in news:450da79b$0$21540$ snipped-for-privacy@news.adtechcomputers.com:

The word, recorded since c.1386, meaning "one who tends to horses at an inn," also, occasionally, "innkeeper", is sometimes jokingly said to be derived from "oat-stealer", but is actually derived from Anglo-French hostiler (modern French hostelier), itself from the Medieval Latin hostilarius "the monk who entertains guests at a monastery," from hospitale "inn" (compare hospital).

Other uses In a more modern usage, since horse riding became uncommon for functional travel, "hostler" is the 'analogous' title for a railroad employee qualified to move locomotives while in a yard or shops complex, but not on the main line.

Yup.

Grin, Stein

The hostler takes over from the road engineer and runs the loco into and around the engine terminal for servicing; (s)he also brings it out to the ready track for the road crew to pick up.

The switchman does attend to the switches. If there's major (re)classification going on, there will be two or more switchmen. They pull the pins on the couplers (the pin prevents the knuckle from opening), and throw the switches as required. The engine may not move unless and until signalled by the switchman. In the GODs that was hand signals by day and lanterns at night. Nowadays, it's radio. This applies only to a manually switched yard, of course.

BTW, the conductor (guard) is in charge of the train on the mainline, and is responsible for any switching that's done between terminals. I've seen conductors throw switches when necessary.

HTH

Wolf K spake thus:

So it's the hostler who drives the "yard goat" around the yard, right?

Not usually. The switcher engineer drives the "yard goat" around the yard. The hostler is more like a 'valay' parking attendent.

They still use hand signals, especially if there's alot of radio chatter. Also, there's another case of a person handling switches called a switchtender. Usually these are for a temporary situation (trackwork, signal upgrades, etc, where a normally power controlled switch must be run manually)

No. The hostler, as previously explained, is a person who is qualified only to move locomotives around the area defined as the "engine terminal". A hostler does nothing other than move light engines. S/he moves them from the inbound track to be sanded and fuelled, into and out of the roundhouse or shop, s/he m.u.s them or breaks up the m.u. consist and finally to the outbound track for the road crew to pick up. In other words, the hostler is responsible for all the servicing movements of locomotives.

This is unlike other countries, where only a fully qualified engineer/driver (Or fireman in steam days) is permitted to move any locomotive and it is considered a "driving shift" in UKese.

A "yard goat" is one of several slang names for a switcher/shunter locomotive. When switching and operating outside the area defined as the "engine terminal", it will be operated by a fully qualified road engineer/driver.

-- Cheers

Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

If you are referring to someone who stays in a fixed position and throws switches this person is referred to as a switch tender. There are few if any such jobs on North American railroads today, these jobs were usually held by older or partly disabled workers.

A switchman is part of a yard crew usually consisting of a foreman, one or more switchmen and the engineman (driver) in CN terms these crews are usually called by the time they go on duty and location. (ie: 16 o'clock hump job, which is the crew going on duty at 16:00 and shoving cars up the 'hump' of the hump yard, or 7 o'clock Industrial zone 'A', again the time on duty (07:00) and the crews assigned work area) Other railroads have different terms and also jobs get nicknames.

While I agree with the others, I'm not sure I've heard the term "switchman" before. "Brakeman" (or "Brakie") is the more usual term that I've heard used. Brakeman is slowly being replaced with Trainman, these days. But historically, in the days of 5-man crews, you had the Engineer, Fireman, Conductor, Head-End Brakeman and Rear (or Tail-End) Brakeman. The Conductor and Rear Brakeman would be in the caboose, while the Head-End Brakeman would either ride in the cab with the Engineer & Fireman, or in his own "doghouse" on or in the loco's tender.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************

Brakeman, or "Brakie" for short, is the usual term for the guys cutting cars, connecting air hoses, and setting the handbrakes on locals (or "peddlars")...which means those trains that would leave a terminal or yard and go somewhere to switch out industries. In a big yard or terminal, that may have not been the case. IIRC, "Yardmen" would be the correct term for those in a terminal who did not go out on the mainline, but were otherwise brakemen.

Technically, the Conductor is responsible for all movement of the train, but usually delegated that to the brakemen for switching.

That should be fun. :-)

BTW, be advised that here in the States, engineers don't "drive" their engines, they "operate" them. When uncoupling a string of cars from the locomotive, one term used is to "pull the head pin". And so on. Just do a search for USA RR slang, and I'm sure you'll find tons of examples just on r.m.r alone.

Paul A. Cutler III

************* The Key to New England - The New Haven Railroad *************

Pac Man wrote: [...]

All true, but the jobs in the yard are different. So are the rules.

Greg.P. spake thus:

Oh, come off it. Yes, we *GET IT* that you over yonder call them "drivers", OK? Do you really think this is the term that God intended us to use, and therefore "engineer" is somehow wrong? Sheesh.

And so are the job classifications. "Switchman" is a perfectly correct term to describe the employee that works on the ground in the yards switching cars. A "switch tender" is something altogether different. The correct term to use is the one that was used in your modeled region during the time you model.

Charles Crocker

A fully qualified engineer would more likely spend his time designing and building bridges, buildings etc rather than mucking about with locomotives. ;-)

/driver

As usual you're grasping the wrong end of the stick!

"Engineer", like "Doctor" or "Barrister" etc is a profession. One can translate English "Engine driver" to US "Engineer" but one cannot readily translate US "Engineer" to English "Engine driver". Even context, unless it is very specific, guarentees the correct translation. Try to think before leaping on your hobby-horse. The term "engineer" was used.

Regards, Greg.P.

LOL!

Well put, David.

The original poster asked, while stating that he wasn't conversant with US terminology. If it was an answer directed to me then yes you could assume wilful blindness as a response to stupidity, but in this case I'm merely pointing out that the two terms are NOT equal.

As you said yourself (mistakenly, evidently) above, "...

Railways employ both engine drivers and engineers - context in this case does not neccessarily clarify the situation. In English* speaking countries, the use of the term "engineer" firstly brings to mind the person carrying a slide-rule, not a piece of oily cotton waste. It's only when one knows that US english speakers misuse the term to mean locomotive drivers that one can translate back.

Regards, Greg.P.

*("English speakers" : those whose language comes from England of the last two centuries) ("english speakers" : those whose language branched prior to about 1800 ie USa)

My point was that the terms, in many countries, are defined terms for specific professions. One may not legally term oneself to be "doctor", "solicitor", "barrister", "engineer" and etc in many countries without having the requisite degrees etc.

Regards, Greg.P.