Newbie question :) be kind...

1,0 m. That is so for most people of moderate size. That is very easy for measuring a length of rope. Pick it up in your left hand, strech to your right shoulder, and there is your meter. But that does not prove superiority. By the same token I could have stretched the rope on the floor and measured 3 footpasses plus something. The superiority is in the simple and uniform way of measuring and expressing these measurements. In decimal, not in fractions. The primitive fractions 1/2, 1/4 may be easy. But if you come to 5/32" is is more difficult. I met 15/64" .. it takes a handheld japanese to get even an idea of what is ment.

We are modelbuilders. Mostly we deal with plans in inches and feet, yes even in Europe because we model ancient prototype, and the plans of that are in inches too. Gently this will change. Our grandchildren have to be educated in converting those vintage units. Only if they model.

Groet, salut, Wim.

Reply to
wim van bemmel
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:51:17 -0400, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and "John Fraser" instead replied:

Good morning back to you. I hoist a cup of coffee in salute to you. Let's see, I faced generally north and east. That'll do.

But wait. Was it metric or Imperial north? Magnetic or true north? Polar or rectangular direction? Oh, dear. We may never get this social bit out of the way.

The metric standard was adapted over 30 years ago in the US but never really caught on. It doesn't matter because it's still a standard and still on the books thus making the US a dual standard country when it comes to weights and measures. All that means is that you can legally sell things in retail using either standard. It would be silly to sell things in kilograms when your customers only deal mentally in pounds. I bought a barrel of Sodium-polyacrylate once that was labeled in kilograms. Not a pound reference in sight on the label. Packaged in Pennsylvania. Bought in San Diego.

As I have been mentioning here, Australia is much the same way. Although they refer to a "2 by 4" as a "4 by 2" (spoken as "four-buh-two") down here, most folk I speak with use Imperial measure in speech and metric in purchasing.

Speedometers down here are all metric and so are odometers. Yet, car dealers sell cars based on mileage driven. No kidding. All of them. They advertise "Low miles" instead of "Low kilometers."

It's a crazy old world, both made rich with the differences that make each of us unique and made poorer for the disagreements they cause. But it sure is fun to watch it all. The end result is that we hopefully still have fun with our hobbies.

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 07:09:45 -0800, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Steve Caple instead replied:

When all else fails, drag in politics.

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:11:10 -0800, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and David Nebenzahl instead replied:

That's exactly right. The standard is still in place in the US and allows for legal use of the units in manufacture. Many cars are now being manufactured using the cubic centimeter as the displacement descriptor and motorcycles have done it for decades. Model airplane engines adopted it quite easily often giving both displacements.

The lack of use is probably down to consumer reluctance or outright resistance. It's certainly not down to the US government stopping it as has been suggested by some here in this very discussion.

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

Good evening Ray;

Aye, no argument there.

Cheers, John

Reply to
John Fraser

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:27:57 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Greg Procter instead replied:

The only thing different in the US is that it allowed for DUAL standards to exist which meant that unarmed resistance by the masses could and did drive it to the background. The metric standard is still there allowing for its legal use in trading and manufacture. Thus, your statement was incorrect and I merely pointed that out to you. What resulted is a typical revolution and revision of facts from you. Sadly, all you had to do was sort of state that you weren't aware of that and let it go. But that's not the Procter way.

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:19:07 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Greg Procter instead replied:

What has that to do with the fact that the standard is there?

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

That was my point, the nit-picking doesn't mean anything in the real world. {;^)

Reply to
Brian Smith

LOL!

I know what you mean, a 2X4 is a 2X4 no matter what the measurements are in Metric.

It's simple, David. The general public in both your country and mine do not consider the Metric System to be of any value to us the consumers.

Reply to
Brian Smith

Just because "the standard is there", doesn't mean that people will use it any time soon.

Reply to
Brian Smith

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:07:14 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and "Brian Smith" instead replied:

Yet that wasn't the issue at all. The issue was that the US had not adapted the metric standard. It has. Either standard is legal for sale or trading. Has been for more than 30 years.

Gold is also a trading medium. Legally. Yet nobody I know of has the ability to use it in exchange on a daily level except for gold brokers and jewelers. That doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

-- Ray

Reply to
Ray Haddad

On 1/19/2008 1:16 PM Wolf K. spake thus:

Excellent post, Wolf, that says a lot of what I'd wanted to say very well.

Just to add that, as you point out, standard sizes are the crucial thing here. Using Greg's travails with milling machines as a good example, it really doesn't matter what system of measurement is used: what would be nice would be to have a standard set (or sets) of fasteners, for instance bolts, to eliminate the hodgepodge of existing, non-compatible "standards". To me, it wouldn't matter at all whether such bolts were measured in inches, millimeters or mill-rods: I'd be happy to select from 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, etc., fasteners, so long as I knew that they'd mate with the standard nuts available. (The same principle applies to things such as optical disc formats, electronic communication protocols, etc.)

Like they say, though, the nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

Thanks, good idea! Black for normal metric. Red for US doesn't feel right, at an emotional level.

Reply to
Greg Procter

Ok, that's probably me. ;-)

Presuming one's beer will cost the same per volume, it doesn't matter whether a standard glass is imperial or metric. Our old 44 gallon drums held the same as your 55 gallon drums. Our new metric ones are exactly the same size.

5 miles/8 km, it's still the same distance to work and home again. A 4" x 2" or 100mm x 50mm is the same weight and strength. and so on.

That one I have to agree on - it's a good thing we have a twelve base counting system!

Of course someone is stopping them - the potential customers.

If it's such an all-fired superior system, then why hasn't

If I answered that I'd be accused of "American Bashing". ;-)

90+% of the world has adopted the Metric System.

That 5% of the world hasn't adopted SI??? How much of a majority do you need?

Reply to
Greg Procter

I truly wish that the Metric System hadn't been forced down our throats in Canada by Pierre Trudeau in the seventies.

Valid point.

Reply to
Brian Smith

That lets the US imperial system out.

2 kg is also a handy size for cutting an slicing.

I spend a lot of my time converting between units:- Tonnes, Tons, US Tons, Hundredweights, Stones, Kilograms, Pounds, Ounces, US Ounces, grams... Nautical Miles, Miles, Kilometres, Chains, Metres, Feet, Inches, Centimetres, Millimetres, 1/4"s, 1/8"s, 1/16"s, 32"s, 1/64"s, Thous, # drills, wire gauges, ... etc.

Agreed.

Who tells you these silly stories? The design came from P&O in the UK. The ISO committee accepted the P&O standard.

Actually it does. The height of a standard container has increased from 8' to 8'6" to 9' over the years. The length has increased from 20', 30' and 40' with US shipping companies using all sorts of extended lengths.

The standards make them interchangable world-wide. US non-standard measurements make US products damned arkward outside the US. See how that works?

230 volts has been accepted worl-wide.

My milling machine is a "fixed" item - it doesn't change to suit my needs.

Reply to
Greg Procter

I'm way ahead of you Ray.

Reply to
Greg Procter

It's a good story!

Wiser in what way?

They adopted it because it was a common system.

For we human beings an original Metre and a present day metre is the same thing, ditto kilograms etc etc.

No, it's a US joke, with the rest of the world laughing at the US - you need a sense of proportion.

US measurements are next to unworkable.

Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

You obviously don't fly yourself or go boating.

I do the same.

The teaching of imperial measurements was discontinued back in the 1960s

- I was _never_ taught US measurements. (pounds just happen to be the same as UK pounds)

Somewhere between sad and pathetic! (no insult intended)

Regards, Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

Go carefully there - I began building a model of a French loco from an early book and found it to be in French feet, about the time I was adding the superstructure to the underframe. It never did get completed.

Reply to
Greg Procter

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