# Newbie question :) be kind...

On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 09:17 +1300, Greg Procter wrote:

Whow, the buggered up my nice and clean 1/87 scale, which was already a compromise... Nobody can be trusted upon nowadays...

Yes, that is the modelers burden. I am afraid we have to live with that ;-)
Groet, salut, Wim.
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On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 22:36 +0100, wim van bemmel wrote:

I make things even worse. A scale of 1/87 is impractical, you need a calulator for that.
To be able to do it by head I use the scale 11,5 mm/m. 11.5 millimeter to the meter. The calculation goes: take the prototype measurement. Divide by 100. Add 10 %. Add another half of that, 5%. That gives the scale dimenson. On paper it is as easy. Prototype, say 12,34 m /100 gives 0,1234 m = 123,4 mm add 10% = 12,34 12,34 mm 5% half of above 6,17 mm ----------+ totals 141,91 mm I hope to have used fixed font... For me 1/87 = 0,011494 is close enough to 11,5/1000 = 0,011500. 1/87,1 makes no notceable difference.
Groet, salut, Wim.
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wim van bemmel wrote:

Not at all: just take the scale dimension, multiply it by 1.15 in your head and divide by 100. No problem!

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wim van bemmel wrote:

Once, as an exercise, I noted all the variations I could find of Prussian P8s/DRG BR38s. Such things as different boilers/domes(6), cab types(3), valve gears(4), tenders(6), smoke deflectors(3) and so on. I multiplied each number by the next to get the total number of possible variations and came up with a result that was slightly bigger than the total number built (circa 3,500)
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I'm not responsible for Australia - however I have found if I ask a distance from A to B Aussies will give the distance in hours.

You aren't very good with facts - anyone quoting distances in miles in NZ has to be over 50 years old and too poor to have bought a roadmap since 1974.

We now get so much US TV programming youngsters talk in US measurements without any understanding of the measurements.

Sure, craftspeople are the last to change - I still use many of my grandfather's tools! A lathe will last a hobbyist a lifetime.
Greg.P.
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On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:26:22 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

No, miles is used in conversation and even in some writing.

What has map ownership to do with it? Two Kiwis living right next door to me travel to NZ a minimum of 4 times a year. Both of them have never used kilometer in discussing the distance to anything as long as I've known them. Not once.

Give them a bit more credit than that, Greg. Some people can learn conversion factors. Even some youngsters.

Old timers are old timers. I'm not surprised to learn that some youngsters are reluctant to let go either. -- Ray
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I just disagreed with you. (is - isn't - is etc)

Of course not, they communicate with you in the language they know you know. If you were a boatie or a pilot they'd probably talk to you in nautical miles.

I'm not saying they can't, I'm reporting what I see and hear.

The youngsters around here have learned metrics since the 1960s. (I was in about the last year of school where (UK) imperial was taught) I know for sure that my children (now ages 30 and 28) were taught _no_ imperial measurements at school. Now we have people talking about heights in feet, weight in pounds (US - we had stones) three or more shoe and clothing size ratings etc etc.

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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:17:38 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Fair comment.

Except I use km in speech exclusively here in Oz. Have since I got here. I'm bilingual that way. All the road direction signs are in km but people still talk using miles. When I refer to distances in the US, I often use both to be sure they have a real idea of the distance being described.

Except your unequivocal statement above didn't indicate that some don't speak that way out of laziness. Some of them probably have that sort of built in calculator that I seem to have. I visualize distances in both metric and Imperial quite easily and only use math when I'm not sure.

Then their teachers fell down on the job. They should have been taught all manner of other systems including Troy, Avoirdupois, Imperial and English(Old). And others.

Same here. My wife still uses stones to estimate weight. Amazingly, so does my GP. Then he records things in metric. Funny that. -- Ray
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You obviously don't fly yourself or go boating.

I do the same.

The teaching of imperial measurements was discontinued back in the 1960s - I was _never_ taught US measurements. (pounds just happen to be the same as UK pounds)

Somewhere between sad and pathetic! (no insult intended)
Regards, Greg.P.
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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:17:20 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Greg, I brought up nautical miles and knots two days ago. Sleeping?

Then you agree. Both are used in many places. Including the US, by the way.

They did you a disservice. This is a world economy in which you exist. Like it or not.

He's not that old, either. I'm quite surprised about his usage. -- Ray
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Not enough! ;-) However flying uses feet and nautical miles.

Of course - you don't find that a ridiculous situation???

Whether I like it or not, there's only one major nation avoiding using the World standard.

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On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:16:32 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Not any more than New Zealand or Australia using them both as needed. Look, the entire point of this exercise was that you always manage to do your best to imply that the US is somehow at fault for everything you dislike about life. When you stop doing that, two things will happen.
1. You will be much happier.
2. You will appear to be a grownup instead of a child in tantrum. -- Ray
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Ray ol buddy, there are many things in this world I dislike. Most countries keep their nasty habits at home under the covers. (Australians' extreme racism, for example) The US is big enough and influential enough to impose it's ugliness onto the rest of us. We all have our ugly sides - NZ turning sheep daggs into garden fertilizer is a bit nasty, if you happen to live beside the fertilizer plant.
Regards, Greg.P.
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:36:37 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Then clearly you should be much more humble. Work on it. -- Ray
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Exactly _why_ should I be more humble? Is the US intending to include NZ in it's empire in addition to Australia??? ;-)
Regards, Greg.P.
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:11:16 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

It already has. You have no navy thanks to Helen. Well, nothing to speak of. Surrounded by water and your have no air force and no navy. Tsk, tsk, tsk . . .
Who you gonna call? -- Ray
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Who tells you these silly stories?
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But, matey, it ain't USED very much. I can't remember ever seeing one of the rare AND fleeting dual English/metric highway signs (lots of 'em in Canada, tho), lumber is still nominal English sizes, metric screws, nuts and bolts are in a special section WHEN available, etc. Now, soda cans DO say 12 fl oz (355 ml) - but note that the metric units are parenthetical.
So, as a practical matter, metric units are not much of a part of American life. I've got nothing against the metric system, although when driving in Europe I still do quick and dirty conversion to English miles so I have a feel for what the sign means when it says I'm 33 km from Arezzo.
--
Steve

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On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:37:21 -0800, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Steve, I was merely pointing out to Greg that yet again he writes things he has no knowledge about. He is so quick to slam anything American that he lets fly a volley without even thinking properly.

As I pointed out in another post, I am fluent in all units of measure when I need to be. -- Ray
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Oh, yes, you're the pips, you're the very model of the modern ... blowhard, that's for sure.
And you're *dead wrong* about the US having "gone metric", as others here are trying to help you to understand. Officially, maybe; in actuality, not a chance.