Southern California Model Railroad Group

from gambling isn't necessarily a good thing.<

However it's the red man's revenge on the white man ! So far the only little bit they have gotten back for everything they lost.

Reply to
Jon Miller
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On 10/30/2007 12:26 AM Greg Procter spake thus:

So it's not OK for us (Americans) to cover up our mistreatment of native peoples (which it shouldn't be), but it's OK for you to whitewash your mistreatment of your native peoples? Something's not right with this picture.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

That's not true, or indian reservations would only exist in California.

Reply to
Paul Johnson

"Greg Procter" wrote

Your frequently arrogant New Zealand-centric posts say otherwise.

Given a choice between poverty and riches, darn near all the Native Americans opt for the riches.

Can't understand it myself.

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Noted for it's corruption" by self-satisfied prigs.

You want corruption? Try any place in central or south America, Africa, the middle east, or greater Asia; then get back to us. On an international scale of one to ten, the US rates somewhere around a 3. Maybe.

Idiot.

Reply to
P. Roehling

Err, well, surely the Indians have more sense than to live in countryside that burns every year???

Reply to
Greg Procter

You live on an Indian reservation???

Reply to
Greg Procter

I'm not sure that we're arguing. Lots of tribal money is great, but the Indians are still individuals. Individuals need fulfilling lives to prosper - being handed a wad of money and a case of beer while sitting in a casino car park in the desert doesn't cut it.

Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

a: I'm one of my native peoples. b: In 1840 Maori outnumbered the European immigrants, which makes your imagined mistreatment questionable. c: The "mistreatment" that did occur wasn't neccessarily immigrant on native. d: We don't live in reservations. e: "Tribal land" area is a major part of NZ's total.

Reply to
Greg Procter

Have you something against 'arrogant New Zealand-centricity'?

Sure, so poverty of income is no longer the Indian's major problem - I'm well aware of that.

Them too!

No, I don't want corruption - it's interesting to see the countries you consider to be worse than yours!

On the most recent international survey, the US came out about 22nd. There were central and south American, African, the middle east, and greater Asian countries ahead of you.

Great signature!

Regards, Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

Reply to
Jon Miller

Perhaps the US should have looked outside it's borders before creating this problem!

THE problem here was (1815-19xx) that "Tribal lands" weren't neccessarily recognised as such so various Maori individuals sold bits of it to settlers/the Government. Not surprisingly other Maori who considered the land belonged to them/their tribe and hadn't been asked if they wanted to sell complained. The European legal system had no way to deal with such claims until the 1970s. We have an entire (additional) legal system tied up sorting historical claims to tribal land. Your (US) problem is going to be that your Indians as individuals will eventually sell off all their lands and future generations will end up with nothing.

Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

and the now larger population of non-railroading customers began asking why

Yes, it was. When I lived in Ontario I was perhaps midway between Long's and The Whistle Stop in Pasadena. Bought a number of things at Long's during that time. Moved to Houston in 2002 so I wasn't familiar with the story since then. I do recall seeing some of the reduction in train space during some of my visits shortly before moving, and have noticed the full page spreads gone from MR for some time now.

Reply to
Rick Jones

Not that just such a scenario wasn't exactly what the early architects of indian policy and their spiritual successors nseemed to have wanted (e.g., Henry Dawes).

Reply to
Steve Caple

Yep, only those that live near a sufficiently large population of stupid non-native Americans have a chance of raking in the dough.

Reply to
Steve Caple

On 10/30/2007 12:44 PM Greg Procter spake thus:

Shows how much (or more properly how little) you know about the situation. While some Indian lands may be sold off as Jon described, the reservations here (U.S.) are actually in some ways sovereign territory, not subject to the same laws in the same was as the rest of the country. In any case, the reservation is a kind of trust which cannot be sold in any case, so they're not going to go away in future generations.

And by the way, Indian-owned casinos aside, there are *plenty* of reservations that are still dirt-poor; Oglala Sioux, to name just one. So they're not all rolling in dough as some here seem to think.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

Explaining the situation in New Zealand is demonstrating how little I know of the US situation???

So US Indians aren't US citizens???

So you distinguish between land you've given the Indians and land you've given the Indians - fair enough.

Any time you herd people into ghettos they're going to be poor.

Greg.P. NZ

Reply to
Greg Procter

Yes, they do. But at the time the reservations were created, the Indians didn't have much of any say or choice in the matter. Which is why I said if indian reservations were always wasteland, there wouldn't be any reservations outside California.

Reply to
Paul Johnson

A fitting demise for a state that may very well have irreversibly damaged the US.

Reply to
Paul Johnson

Never mind Groom Lake is in Nevada, though I'd tend to agree pretty much anybody hanging out in that region that doesn't live or work there probably belongs in California...

Reply to
Paul Johnson

*Not true*.

If anything, the situation here is worse, thanks to decades of governmental paternalism, the various churches, and large scale disinterest on the part of "White Ausrtalia"...

But there are signs that people here might have woken up to the fact that indigenous Australians are generally treated like shit, and things are starting to change - at last.

Cheers,

Mark.

Reply to
marknewton

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