Hornby list their 08 as £55, which I guess will mean it will retail for around £40-43. I thaught it was going to have working lights, but it is described as lamp and pipe work detail, which means they have included blobs of plastic or metal moulded to the required shape, not actual working lights.
the other things it list, "opening doors," handy if your planning on entering the cab to measure the "Scale Cab interior" I just cant wait for the rivet counters over in the diesel pages to state the brake lever is too short! Opening roof vent, sand pipes, windscreen wipers, sprung buffers, detailed radiator grill, nem pocket, all of which I think bar the roof vent are on the bachmann model?
It shows the model with full air pipes etc, but of course given your likely to be shunting back and fourth with this model, your not really going to be able to fit these at either end?
It would be near impossible to include working lights on a 08 / 09. each light is / was controlled on the real things by a switch on *each* light unit [1] and any could be on or off - they acted as head lamp code when trip working etc.
[1] in the case of the 08 that would mean 4 lamps at each end and in the case of 09's and SR allocated 08's 6 lamps at each end. It would be like asking for the model of a pre TOPS head code panel to have scrollable indicator reels !
Very handy, a lot of shunting loco's must have spent many hours of their working lives with the cab doors open, unlike a mainline loco such as the class 50 !...
I wonder if they mean an opening cab roof vent or opening engine covers with a depiction of the EE engine unit - now that would be a break-though ! :~)
If they are for the SR allocated loco's then it will mean the high level pipes as well, very noticeable if not fitted !
I suspect that until we can see the model in the 'flesh' that decision will have to wait.
I think on balance Simon I'd prefer to be referred to as a 'rivet counter' ( a pretty inane term, obviously intended to to insult those with more prototype knowledge than the writer) rather than accept some of the crap without comment which the model manufacturers have churned out over the last few years.
No, unless you are referring to the two 1947 LMS Co-Co diesel-electric loco's (10000 & 10001). AIUI the black 08's had either black or red coupling rods.
My point was John, what is the point in having a scale interior? Are modellers going to take it apart to measure things! Your not going to be able to see inside the cab that much anyway. I cant see how it is a selling point to most modellers or non "modellers" i.e. kids? Hornby presumably sell alot of the current 08 to kids without scale interiors? Yes, the old hornby 08 is crap as a model, but the bachmann one is not, its just the rivet counters who count rivetsd and moan at models being 1 ml to wide etc, most "railway modelers" I know are more than happy with todays standards, even the 37/4, you must have sold a fair few of these? If it were that bad it would never have sold.
I know our club of 40 members has about 3 "rivet counters," the rest of us vary at "lower" levels but I think we enjoy ourselves more as we are not moaning all the time!!
So what is the point of coach interiors etc., take it further, what is the point of fine detailed mouldings, you can't see much when the model is 'whizzing around the track !....
Hornby presumably sell alot of the current 08 to kids without
Or without a chassis either !
The old Hornby 37 sold, the old Lima 37 sold well, so what was the point in Bachmann producing a model ? I think the word we are looking for is called 'progress'....
It was the on-going and childish use of the term 'rivet counter' which irked me. What on earth is wrong with wanting something to be right? If that (taken to its extreme when building a fine scale model) means literally counting the number of rivets, well what's wrong with that? I don't have any particular problem with the level at which anyone enjoys our hobby, so why criticise the approach others take?
Having got that out of the way, then I have to say I agree totally with your other points. I failed to see the point with the Class 50 of Hornby fitting working fans (which couldn't be seen because the grill over them was too course) or opening doors, or adjustable radiator grills. All they do is add to the development and production costs of a model, and increase the price for little or no benefit.
In the end I added a solitary Hornby class 50 to my diesel collection, but had the price been GBP65.00 rather than GBP85.00 I might have had two or three. Who's the loser in that situation?
I desperately want the new Hornby 31s, but at 90 quid it will probably be one (or maybe two), rather than the five much more sensibly priced class 20s or the three 24s & 25s and four 37s from Bachmann which are such good value for money, despite the odd shortcoming.
The new Hornby 08 will have to be a substantial improvement to displace the Bachmann versions on my layout. I'm not saying they can't be improved on, but they'll have to be good. At ten quid above the price of the Bachmann jobbie, they have to be exceptionally good, and that doesn't mean I want gimmicky opening doors. I'll reserve judgement on the cab interiors until I see them.
Finally I welcome the new Seacow from Hornby, but am not convinced they have made a sensible choice of 'modern' wagon to reproduce. The Lima version was never a top notch seller, and only reach silly prices on eBay because they have not been available for such a long time. I remember having dozens of the Lima models on my shelves at one time, and no-one was the slightest bit interested until they became generally unavailable.
No I wasn't, I was complaining about the increase in price of the A4 over a single month - a totally different issue.
As it happens I don't particularly want lights on my locos, and was just pointing out that it was possible. I certainly don't want them if they have a significant impact on pricing.
As an electrical dunce I welcome one with a dcc ready socket even at a tenner for the benefit. And I am looking at all these nice diesels in good quality form, although I agree £90 for the 31 seems very high. Just have to get a couple of Heljan 47's instead.
Fitting a decoder to a Bachmann 08 is just a question of soldering four wire. Hardly think the addition of a DCC socket justifies a tenner.
Have to say all of this "DCC Ready" lark is fine, but if it only means that a socket is supplied without any though of where the decoder is to go, it's a bit pointless.
I'm inclined to agree as someone teetering on the edge of DCC, I just about trust myself with a soldering iron around track, given the choice of =A310 more or wrecking a =A330 loco I know which way I'd go.
Sticks and stones..., but words! I guess we all have our views on rivet counters. In our club, out of the 40 members about 3 are rivet counters (to most of us) who must slate bachmann models etc despite the fact they are much better than previous attempts, strangley enough they all diesel modellers. Now ok if they want to go to more detail than i, thats up to them. Unfortunatley, at their level they seem to think that every one else is interested in exactly the same standards / details and they are the most boraing members of the club drowling on about what to most are trivial details, i.e the heljan 47was 1 ml too wide??? They are avoided at every opertunity by most others. Sadly, to the outside world I and indeed all of us must seem like a rivet counters, I play trains! play trains, i dont play trains, i operate them, opps, slipped into rivet mode!!! :-)
It's also worth bearing in mind that getting the bodyshell off a Bachmann 08 has so far eluded me :( I'll be getting at least one new Hornby 08, to put it through its paces (in terms of detail alone it surpasses the Bachmann offering IMO).
If you're going to bite the bullet and go DCC - a course of action which I'd heartily recommend - then at some stage your're going to have to weild a soldering iron in the direction of a loco.
The Bachmann 08 is a particularly easy loco to hard-wire for starters, and although I wouldn't use the suggested decoder just take a look at
formatting link
and see. By far the most difficult part of the job is removing the body, and you'd still have to do that if it was DCC ready.
I've hard-wired five different decoders in just one of my Bachmann 08s before settling on the Lenz LE0511 which indicates the risks to the loco from the soldering iron are pretty minimal.
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