In message , kim writes
I assume its going to have DCC and working lights at least, all recent Bachmann modern image models have (I do of course stand to be corrected, and probably will... :-) ). Not that I have DCC, need to get my arse in gear and develop the layout to something more than lots of track and ballast on a bare baseboard. Can't seem to get past the playing with trains bit and get on to some serious modelling...
"kim" wrote
Because it's a world of compromise. The 66 will come DCC ready, which I welcome. Are you suggesting it's too difficult for you to plug in a decoder?
John.
Bachmann 20 and Deltic are without lights. :o(
--
***"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept." wrote
No lights Andy.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
Are you suggesting it's too difficult for Bachmann to plug in a decoder?
(kim)
John Turner wrote:-
So UK customers will get half a Class 66 while the rest of Europe gets a whole Class 66.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
My comments related to the Class 40, not the 66. I'm not sure of the Bachmann spec for the 66 yet, so cannot comment on whether that will have lights or not.
John.
"kim" wrote
No I'm not, but I am suggesting that currently 90% of the market don't want to pay extra for it, and believe me right now DCC is still very much a minority sport.
Bachmann are the first UK model manufacturer to make any serious attempt at pushing DCC in the model railway field, so why are you criticising them rather than Hornby who are doing nothing other than fitting DCC sockets to
*some* of their range.John.
What about those of us who, for one reason or another[1], have a DC-only layout, and don't wish to pay extra for luxuries like sound chips?
[1] - In my case, I run a lot of stock that lack DCC sockets, and I'm even sure if some of my locos/DMUs could easily be upgraded even if my soldering skills were up to scratch, plus my layout is small enough to make DC practical.--
***
Bachmann are welcome to offer a version with a decoder, but I'll bet there are a heck of a lot more DC-users out there than DCC, who would object to paying extra for DCC which they would then have to remove. If it was switchable DCC / DC and the price increase wasn't too high, then maybe.
I guess one day I'll go DCC, but it is going to cost about £300 to get the controller and decoders to convert. That's more than I have to spend in a year on my hobby, so for the moment, I'll spend by hard-earned cash on locos and rolling-stock.
You can't ram DCC down people's throats. Bachmann know this, so they give people the option.
Adrian
I agree totally, I for one would not buy any loco that came dcc ready. I dont see why I should have to pay any extra for something that is no use to me. I wonder what percentage of modellers have converted to dcc compared to those who are staying with DC? Mike H
John Turner wrote:-
That's a chicken & egg argument. Until now, customers did not have the choice of buying a RTR loco with factory fitted DCC. Even when (not "if") DCC becomes standard on all new models, a great many enthusiasts will still be running all-analogue layouts.
Hornby is not producing a non-DCC version of a model which already exists in DCC form on the continent and for which the necessary sound chip is already available. As for 'criticising' Bachmann I will be supporting them by buying the Class 25 DCC outfit as soon as it becomes available.
(kim)
Rich Mackin wtote:-
A lot of people don't want TV sets with stereo sound or remote control but they still have to buy them because it's cheaper to make just one kind of TV set than three different kinds. The cost to Kader of buying and fitting DCC chips at source is negligible.
Nothing fitted to new models is going to prevent older models being run on existing layouts. Indeed some people are still using 50 yr old Meccano controllers with great success.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
No I don't agree. I have a significant number of DCC customers and not one has asked for DCC fitted loco's, all being perfectly happy to fit their own decoders.
The range of decoders available is extremely varied with a wide variety of functions. It seems pretty pointless to me to fit a decoder which may not even meet the needs of those customers who are using DCC.
The Bachmann class 25 will have the equivalent of a Lenz LE1014E decoder fitted and yet this is one of the least popular decoders as far as my customers buying habits are concerned. Most seem to opt for the LE1024 or LE1025 modules.
John.
"jimedvic" wrote
My guestimate is that between 5 & 10% of our customer base use DCC operation, but that proportion is certainly increasing.
John.
Over here, and increasing number of new releases are coming with the electronics that switch automatically between straight DC and DCC.
As someone observed, it's cheaper in the long run to build a single model that includes features some customers don't want than to build many different models each catering to a different mix of wants. In fact, in electronics it is usually much cheaper to do this, since a manufacturer pays a small fraction of the price a consumer pays for a part such as a decoder. Reason: packaging, warehousing, sales processing etc of single parts through to the consumer (one-at-atime purchaser) amounts to an enormous cost relative to the manufacturing cost of the part.
I expect that within a few years straight DC locos will simply not be made any more. The auto-switchover module (which includes sound, BTW), seem to me to be the best solution. As the electronics become even smaller, more powerful, and cheaper, the debate will cease. Bachmann may have made a sales error in incorporating the 1014E decoder, but if so, they will fix it.
"Wolf Kirchmeir" wrote
I don't think DCC is ideal for the straight-forward trainset market here in the UK. Simplicity sells, and believe me some of our customers need simplicity - the concept of having to get the power from the controller to the track is beyond some of them.
Personally I think DCC ready is a better option for the UK to DCC fitted.
John.
That's what it all boils down to. We all have a finite amount of money to spend on our hobby. If Bachmann or Hornby or whoever offered a DCC enabled version which could still be used on DC, and the price difference was under £10, even I'd buy the DCC version. One day, I'm sure I will switch and it would be helpful to have locos which needed no time or money spent on them to make them work.
The Lenz LE1000A is just about cheap enough to tempt me. I'm seriously considering buying half a dozen of these and beginning to convert my fleet. If the price was £5, I'd take the plunge now.
Adrian
I'd agree unless we could have locos which are DCC AND DC compatible for minimal price premium, in which case the DCC market would benefit. And nobody really loses.
Adrian
Phil: But DCC fitted locos ARE DC compatible! (for standard DC controllers
- NOT pulse width modulators) Note that Gaugemaster models are 'pure dc' and therefore compatible (at least, the models I have for 'other' and 'test' tracks are.
My old Digitols are NOT.
BY DEFAULT a dcc decoder will operate on dc. SOME ZTC decoders will ALSO operate on Zero-1 MANY GERMAN decoders (ESU, and as fitted by Roco or Fleischmann) are ALSO compatible with Marklin, Fleischmann FMZ, Trix Selectrol etc AS WELL as being dcc decoders. (Some ESU decoders are also rated and quoted as for the slight (compatible) variation/options of LGBs MTS (dcc) digital. DCC control stations are available with 8, 10, 99 or 10000 loco address capability - the decoders being used in 2 digit or 4 digit modes (selectable by the user, but all factory default to '3' using 'two digits' range)
Its easy, and with Roco Start Sets, LGB Start sets, Fleischman Starts sets, and now Bachmann Start Sets, its straight out of the box - JUST 2 wires to the track - whatever the circuit -- no having to explain to a customer that a 2nd loop needs a 2nd controller or feed, and reverse loops are handled automatically by module.
(Zero-1 since its beginning, and now dcc on OO, LGB on MTS) >150 locos converted this year
Phil
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