Bachmann Class 40 - latest news.

Download the hobby.zip file, its a pdf, all info about the 66 is in there.

Having seen the continental HO stuff with sound I do think it is worth the effort - I was shown a tank engine with an astonishing range of sounds, including station announcements. I was surprised at the quality of the sound from what must be a very small speaker. The US outline layout on the Peco CD of a year or so back had a loco with sound and I did rather like that.

I have messed about with sound over the years (I do like the sound of carriage doors when a train is in the station) but I havent yet invested in the newer stuff. As I play in N getting a chip in is often a problem so adding a speaker would be a real difficulty (I am still plain DC as I have a hefty investment already).

Sound does help draw you into a layout, at least I find it does.

Mike

I assume the station announcements are as unintelligible as the originals.

The main hall of Toronto Union Station is so cavernous, they use pre- recorded announcements with long pauses between words to allow the echoes to die away.

Hmmm, I wonder why they haven't?

Fred

Yes, they got it about right, the typical 'tannoy' sound and you cannot quite make out what is being said. I know a doctor who had recorded announcements, using a musicians set of kit to add echo etc. The station lists he used were all body parts, the details I leave to your imagination. The point being when he used gibberish it didnt sound right, there is a rythm to the words in a language, but the list of body parts, although almost completely uninteligable, 'sounds right'

Mike wrote:-

You mean

Announcer: "The train arriving at platform #### is the #### from #### calling at ####, ####, ####, #### and #### ####."

Passengers: "Wha'd she say?", Wha'd she say?".

(kim)

"piemanlarger" wrote

Quality sound may be for me, but I don't see that being achieved in HO or OO scales. Basically the speakers are far too small (by definition) to give the full range of sound produced by either prototype steam or diesel locos, where base nose is crucial to give true impact.

I'm not at all impressed with Broadway International Limited products. The sound is cheap and nasty and the models generally have the level of detailing which most USA model manufacturers got rid of twenty years ago. They're also grossly expensive.

John.

Hi Kim,

As a DCC user I don't want manufacturers fitting cheap nasty chips and charging me more than they're worth for it. I'd rather have them come ready for me to fit my own chip. That way if I want a cheap nasty chip, I can pay for it. If I want something with extra functions, sound, BEMF, dither or whatever and am prepared to pay the extra, I'd rather have the choice. As you point out manufacturers are in business to make a profit, not to fit quality DCC chips. And here's a newsflash for you: given British manufacturers can't even work out whether to put lights in or not presumably because it adds to the cost but not the profit, I don't think you'll end up with quality DCC from them either.

Because there's no point. Let the specialists, such as Lenz, etc., do it.

In message , John Turner writes

Perhaps they've borrowed that slogan from the circus: "There's one born every minute".

Each to their own John, but the A class won a best model last year so the detail is not that bad, in fact on mine its very good and the products are selling. Its hauling and running qualities are superb, nothing I have seen including kits has out performed it. The price is irrelevant as with any model its only worth what someone is willing to pay, I wouldnt give you £5 for a "live" steam model byut you have sold quiet a few.

I disagree with you about the quality of sound, I have not heard anything better, even in Dc there are a number of things happening that are clearly audible. A silent model is still far more inaccurate!

Simon

Michael Walker wrote:-

Hi Michael,

Bachmann is currently offering a complete DCC train set with controller for less than some european brands are asking for a single loco. It beats me they can possibly be making any money out of this? It is therfore only natural that they would make economies where they can. As DCC becomes standard (on new products only) they can afford to fit more powerful and reliable chips. What better incentive is there to fitting lights and sound at the factory than to be able to offer DCC with them at the same time?

The Class 66 is a very special case: It is an all new product; it is modern image; it has a distinctive sound; it is more likely than most to attract younger modellers to the hobby. For that reason Bachmann should pull out all the stops and build in every feature they possibly can.

(kim)

"piemanlarger" wrote

That sums it up Simon.

I've got a mate who loves music and insists on having a tinny transistor radio blaring out all of the time. I can't listen to music like that, and will only listen with a good hi-fi system.

That sums up the model loco sound issue to me too. BLI and many of the other locos I've heard with sound are on a par with the noise chucked out by that tranny.

John.

Live Steam has undoubtedly been a commercial success. The range is to be expanded next year and the year after that.

He is a very committed employee but NOT a director.

Untrue. He most definitely is!

Simon Jeffery is NOT a replacement but an additional appointment. As Hornby expands, and that will be quite dramatic if the Lima deal is concluded, Hornby must have a Group Marketing Director to oversee all the Marketing of the various companies. It will also be his responsibility to look for new areas of product etc. but most importantly, the World is very much ?electronics? based and his expertise in this area was until now lacking at Hornby and his future input will be valuable.

Frank Martin, the Chief Executive, has mentioned that DCC is part of Hornby's future plans.

Dave W. (Confident long term shareholder!)

"David Westerman" wrote

I thought the deal had been concluded?

John.

but you have got to admit it makes it more "Alive" than a standard model or even a "Live steam" model, and a Steam engine is alive!

John.

A tangential comment -- well, maybe not, since it's not clear which of your complaints is the main one. I'll assume it's that pre-installed DCC means you will be paying extra for something you don't want (a cheap DCC decoder). Well, you will, but nowhere near the price of the self-selected decoder, for which you will pay several times as much as the manufacterer would. I think you should bendn your efforts to eprsuading Bachmann to install the better decoder, even if that raises the retail price. You will probbaly pay less than for a DCC ready loco + decoder of your choice. In a year ot two, that will certainly be the case IMO.

The manufacturere pays far, far less for parts than you do. As has been pointed out before, it's often cheaper for the manufacturer to produce fewer varieties of a product to track separate streams, which includes separate packaging, separate cataloguing, separate billing, even separate advertising, etc. These costs vary very little with the materials and labour cost of the product, and so can amount to a rather large proportion of the ex-factory cost, especially for low-cost items such as decoders.

DCC is still largely a cottage industry, but it's rapidly becoming a small mass-production niche, which means that the decoders are becoming much cheaper ex-factory, and so it's making less and less sense for the model makers to offer items without decoders. The lower cost of the simpler engine is increasingly offset by the costs of running two separate production streams. There's also the undeniable fact that DCC is growing in acceptance (even in the UK, though it's taking longer there), so that simple engines may well become unsaleable within a year or three. This may sound like a minor issue, but keep in mind that current production is for the 2005 season, and is practically completed, while 2006 production is starting up, and demand for 2007 and beyond is being, er, guessed at.

An anecdote: recently, a poster on a another group asked about Bachmann's GP35 diesels. He was told that another manufacturer would be releasing a new, better quality model within the year - so he decided not to buy the Bachmann version. If Bachmann estimated that they could sell this model to the end of 2005 and perhaps beyond, they are going to be stuck with quite a few unsaleable pieces. Model railroad items are produced in batches, usually enough to supply the next 12-24 months of expected sales. IOW, we could well see the Bachmann GP35s being offered at very deep discounts, which doesn't mean they will sell to the people who are waiting for the higher quality engine.

The anecdote also illutsrates why industrial espionage is a growing niche.

HTH

John Turner wrote: [...]

I heard O-scale narrow gauge K-27s on a layout last July, and it was awesome. Of course those engine have a hefty tender, which permits a larger speaker. The owner also had set the sound so that you had to be about 100 scale feet or so from the engine to hear it, at which distance it sounded just right. I'm sure if he'd cranked it up so that it could be heard across the room it would've sounded distorted.

Apparently the fat lady has not quite finished singing.

DW