Ben C. wrote:-
The independents remain in business by spotting niche markets for alternative products. Witness Bratchell and DC Kits, etc. If there was a genuine economic demand for a particular prototype the independents would already be supplying it in either kit or modified RTR form.
It may be worth £85 but if it cost £100 it is unlikely enough collectors would buy it recover the costs of production.
(kim)
Adrian wrote:-
I am guessing that if the Western is a success Heljan will stick with it's Western Region theme and produce a high spec Warship.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
They've already announced their intention to do the class 33 followed by the very similar classes 26& 27.
John.
John Turner wrote:-
So will Hornby be re-releasing the Lima variants in order to stimy Heljan's efforts?
(kim)
How and whyfore? Where do you gather your facts and market research from? Do you think that *any* manufacturer (regardless of debate, discussion and opinion on this group) would be foolhardy enough to release a model at such a price without being certain that it would sell in sufficient quantity?
Regardless of c*llectors, what about modellers? What makes you think that it's the collectors that contribute significantly more to the manufacturers coffers than us ordinary modellers? Or are you classing all of us as c*llectors?
(In which case, I'm deeply offended... :-)) ...)
db.
Who knows. Who cares!
Why do you ask us these silly questions? Why don't you ask Hornby?
Dirk Belcher wrote:-
Certainly not. And up till now none has.
Afraid so. For the purposes of this argument anyone who purchases a model can be said to be a 'collector'.
(kim)
Because if Heljan announced their intention based on the assumption that these classes were no longer being offered by LIma, they are likely to reconsider if they suddenly become available again.
(kim)
Well, that didn't stop them producing Class 47 a few years ago when Hornby and Lima ones were about, Hymeks and Westerns are still being made by Hornby yet Heljan were happy enough to make some more.
I don't consider Lima 33s etc serious competition for a Heljan model.
"kim" wrote
Fight quality with crap; is that what you're saying?
Hornby tried that for year on year with Bachmann, but in the end realised that if they were to compete it had to be with a quality product.
John.
"kim" responded to
They exercise what is regarded as a commercial judgement, and whether that is influenced by market research can certainly be questioned. Looking back historically at some of the models (or toys for that matter) produced or distributed by Hornby does raise the question whether the marked was researched at all.
John.
Have you seen the Tri-ang/Hornby Hymek? It's a little past it's prime!
The Lima body on a modern mechanism would be serious lower cost competition.
Regards, Greg.P.
Definitely not.... In fact, I should mention that I have bought both the Heljan 47 and the Hornby 50. The former because I just couldn't live with Lima pancake motors anymore - I traded-in 3 lima locos (leaving only my cl87) and added-to it to buy the 47. I had only held-off buying one before for lack of funds. I just decided I'd rather have one good loco than three dire ones... In the case of the 50, I just like the prototype and dispite the cab windows error and inset-grilles, it still runs better than anything else I have Heljan included.
I suppose what I am getting at is that I am personally moving up the quality ladder here, and at the risk of supporting your view rather than my own, a £100 + loco wouldn't be out of the question for me. The problem with that is that I wouldn't spend any more money on my hobby - I spend what I am able to spend already. Also, a pricetag of £100 + would probably preclude impulse purchases like the 50 and the 55 which are not relevent to my layout. If this hypothetical £100+ model was a 40 or a 25 or a WCML AC electric, you could count me in.
Regarding DEMOD, I do regret leaving in some ways. There certainly is much to be learned there, but having stuck my head above the parapet, complying with the moderators instructions would have implied acceptance of them. My loss perhaps, but what the heck.
Happy modelling!
Adrian
Oh, I agree absolutely. I am sure much of Hornby's past policy was somewhat scattergun and based on the sh*t that stuck.
I have difficulty accepting that a little more thought and research didn't go into the (expensive but good) class 50 or Heljan's class 47. As for them releasing the "Hymek", a small- class, short- lived, few- liveried prototype: that was either one *heck* of a gamble or researched meticulously, surely?
db.
"Dirk Belcher" wrote
Who knows; maybe the 'Hymek' is the start of a series of releases for the BR(WR) - certainly the 'Western' is the next scheduled release. However, it wouldn't have been very high on my list of priorities - fine model though it undoubtedly is.
John.
Dirk Belcher wrote:-
That is my point entirely. It is my belief that desingn of the Heljan 47 was compromised at the last minute when it was realised it was never going to sell for its originally intended £100 price tag.
As for Hornby's Class 50, that looks to me like it was chosen purely to counter a drift of customers away from Hornby towards Heljan. "Heljan has just brought out a Class 47 at £90, how can we counter it?". "We can bring out a Class 50 at £85".
(kim)
John Turner wrote:-
It's called "the squeeze". You flood the market with cut price alternatives just long enough to put a smaller rival out of business.
That didn't stop them countering Heljan with a revamped Class 47 and Hymek and it wouldn't surprise me if they now resurrect the old Western.
(kim)
I'm sure that the Heljan 47 helped to convince Hornby that a higher price-point was viable. As for customer drift, in terms of pure numbers I'm sure the drift to Bachmann must have been more of a concern. The Bachmann level of detail and accuracy may not have been much better than the old Hornby range of diesels, but the vastly improved chassis must have steered many customers in that direction (as it did with me).
It's an interesting situation we have now. Bachmann have a range of *fairly* uniform quality. They all have a modern chassis and run better than anything Hornby has, with the exception of the 50. Hornby on the other hand have a large range of models based on old-to-ancient tooling and drive systems which just don't measure up any more. When Lima were still the main competitor, Hornby looked good, but for the most part, they still have some catching up to do. Of course after the release of the promising 31 and another model or two of that sort of quality, the tables will have been turned and Bachmann will be the Lima of the future (if you see what I mean).
Adrian
"kim" wrote
The bloody things don't sell though - I've got a shop full of relatively expensive cr#p. Won't be ordering stuff like the Hornby 47 again.
John.
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