Hornby's new Stanier coaches.

At long last I've managed to get my hands on one or two of the new Hornby
ex-LMS Stanier coaches which are that manufacturer's latest flagship attempt
at passenger rolling stock.
I thought you were a diesel modeller, I hear echoing around? Well I'm a
'transition era' modeller and there were enough of these pre-nationalisation
coaches around during that era for some to actually attract BR blue/grey
livery, so discount them at your cost. Or maybe that should read - at their
cost discount them!
I've waited a long time for these coaches. I travelled on them well into
the sixties when travelling to work between Normanton and Leeds, and they
were an integral part of my planning for an early 60s layout. With an RRP
of £28.99 - a full £7.00 more expensive that the superlative Bachmann Mk1s -
I was expecting near perfection! If we're going to approach the Continental
manufacturers in pricing structure, then I think we're entitled to approach
them in all round quality too.
So where am I going with this? Well firstly the coaches certainly look the
part, scale pretty well and have a host of wonderful detailing touches. I
say 'they look the part' or at least they do until you look at the colour.
The BR maroon is hopelessly wrong - it's far too drab and matt and is sadly
lacking the richness of the prototype livery. To my untrained eye, I'd say
they're much too 'brown' in appearance.
Then there's the glazing. Again with a product at this end of the price
range I would not expect to see any of the old-style prismatic effect around
the edge of the windows, but sadly it's there for all to see if you look
closely, and is marred further on several examples I've checked over by
highly visible white glue. Whatever happened to Hornby's traditional
quality control?
After going to the trouble of fitting a 'close-coupling' system to their
recent Gresley coaches, and indeed to these new Staniers, it all appears to
have been a total waste of effort. It's completely impossible to get the
corridor connections to come any where near together. They should actually
protrude further than the buffers, but don't, and I can't get a corridor to
corridor connection closer than 5mm - totally unacceptable in 2005 - and
then it's only that close because Hornby have chosen to add corridor
connection blanking plates to the end of each coach. Even the preceding
Gresley coaches can achieve a gap of around 1mm. There seems to be no easy
way of remedying this problem without completely replacing the corridor
Nit picking? I don't think so - at this price level I was expecting more,
and to be honest these coaches don't hold a candle to the much cheaper, and
much older Bachmann standard Mk1s, let alone come anywhere near close to the
new Bachmann Pullmans in terms of quality and value for money.
Score out of 10 - only 6 I'm afraid. Can do much better!
Reply to
John Turner
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"John Turner" wrote
Score out of 10 - only 6 I'm afraid. Can do much better!
How long till you put us some pictures on the net like you used to ? (and sadly not done for ages ?)
I'm not too worried about the colour. When you see the variation on preserved lines which do go from Brown to light Red (all were Maroon! originally) It may be time the model co's emulated this. They were not all unison in colour surley ? (Born 1976 so wouldn't really know!)
Reply to
Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept.
"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept." wrote
That's one of the problems Andy, the preserved railways seem pretty much unable to produce anything which looks convincingly like BR maroon, and their attempts at lining can be amateurish to say the least.
BR maroon, on the other hand, was a BSI standard colour, and although it would fade and discolour with time, we're talking about what Hornby claim to be 'pristine' coaches here. They should be a much richer red, and not be a total mismatch with any other model (including Hornby's own output) from the last forty years.
Reply to
John Turner
Hmm, mismatch. I have just compared one of the Hornby Staniers I have against a Bachmann BG in BR Maroon, and to my eye they are very, very close in colour (though it has to be said not the same)...
However, I agree with you John about the close coupling appearance. With the corridor connectors modelled so far back, there is no way to close the gap except by squashing the coaches together against their buffers (as if the buffers were fully retracted) with the help of human hands. This does seem to be a step backward as obviously the coaches can't run in such circumstances... However, beyond that one element, I do think the coaches look the part. They're fine for me, and I'll probably replace the corridor connections at a later date with something more workable.
Ian J.
Reply to
Ian J.
"Ian J." wrote
It doesn't work Ian - I've tried that and if you compress the buffers and use a rigid coupling bar then the things just derail on the first point. Even with the buffers compressed you can't get the corridor connections to come together.
Reply to
John Turner
We compared the new and old coaches in my locoal model shop today. The outcome was that the old coach was not that bad a model!! Personally I am not convinced that the new stainier is worth the selling price of around £23, I`ll be just as happy with one brake-end mixed in with bachmann mk1s behind my ivatt!
As to colour, the original shop owner (now in his 70's, shop run by son) also comented on the paint being all wrong as he remembers seeing these. We are in S.Wales and although the LMS ran into Swansea, so far the LMS / BRMR modellers in our region are not taken with the new coaches.
God nows what variation of green they will do on the proposed Maunsel 06/07 stock!
Reply to
It wouldn't worry me because this really is something a little weathering could resolve! Look in any colour book and you'll see maroon coaches in all kinds of different variants due to fading etc Don't forget that 'memory' is a totally unreliable method of matching colours!
Graham Plowman
Reply to
In re the colour Maroon. I'm writing from the far side of the world, and so have never seen a BR coach in maroon. but I do have a copy of British Standard 381C-1964, 'Colours for Specific Purposes'. Looking at the Maroon colour chip therein, colour no.541, it is a very dark red , almost purple. Darker than 448 Deep Indian Red, darker than 452 Dark Crimson. I reckon that if this maroon colour was applied to a model coach, the coach would almost look to be black. Possibly to get the right look, the theory of 'scale colour' would have to be applied here. Regards, Bill.
Reply to
William Pearce
In message , John Turner writes
I quite agree about muddy colours. I have raised the issue on another discussion group re the dull BR green of Hornby locos which are, inall other respects a great step forward. Some people agreed but many quoted the old chestnut about memory being faulty and how we dont really know what colour used to look like! And yes I know all about scaling down of "true" colours not working!
Sorry to be a bit of a dinosaur but the maroon of Hornby Dublo super detailed tinplate coaches has yet to be equalled in my opinion! That lovely rich red is still the best representation of a newly - outshopped coach. The same is true to some extent of the green as well. Compare HD "Bristol Castle" with the current "Flying Scotsman" and you will see what I mean.
Its all a great pity because it is as easy to get it right and I think that current manufacturers have made great strides.
Reply to
John East
"William Pearce" wrote
But people have been recreating BR maroon on model coaches for years without too much difficulty. The latest Hornby colour ain't it!
Reply to
John Turner
years without
But what would you expect to do with ?k of coaches all painted in the wrong colour by mistake, other than sell to those who are colour blind?! :~)
Reply to
"John Turner" wrote BR maroon, on the other hand, was a BSI standard colour, and although it would fade and discolour with time, we're talking about what Hornby claim to be 'pristine' coaches here. They should be a much richer red, and not be a total mismatch with any other model (including Hornby's own output) from the last forty years.
Fair comment. On that account yes. If it were to be weathered (Of which I must be one of the minority that DOES like them this way, as I hate running pristine stock and can't weather and can't afford someone else to paint or spray for me!) would it be as noticable ?
Great shame about the connections ? Are they like Mk 1 buffers and have two settings ? (Real thing that is, not the model)
Reply to
Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept.
"Andy Sollis- Churnet Valley model Railway Dept." wrote
It seems they've modelled the corridor connections in 'fully retracted' mode - i.e. in the form that they would normally be operated at the end of a rake. That's totally incorrect for coaches being coupled together and hence the grossly overscale gap.
Reply to
John Turner
Or the truly flush glazing and how many people count the number of compartments in a coach anyway?
Reply to
Havn't seen the Hornby coaches yet but this sounds all too much of the complaints nearly 30 years ago of Airfix colours which could be virtually resolved by a coat of varnish - anyone fancy dipping their Stanier coach in a bowl of that useful floor cleaner that Johnsons make !
Mike Parkes snipped-for-privacy@mphgate.removetoreply demon.co.uk
Reply to
Mike Parkes

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