Prototype for everything department

consensus was

Lines-Wales' by

Sounds like a typical mix freight train of the time and location, what's all the excitement about ?...

The photo is dated 25th April 1970, and the loco is D7085,

How about Deltic's on non corridor outer suburban or newspaper trains, both were known to have happen in the early '70's on the ER line out of King X !

trains,

Or fitted freight trains. I saw several Deltics on those in the 60s. And a Brush Type 2 with one tatty maroon BSK substituting for a failed DMU in 1969. As the coach only had four compartments, compared with the

120-odd seats of the unit it was replacing, I just hope that the service wasn't too popular.

I've also seen diesels pushing brake tenders, pulling brake tenders and there is a film clip on one of the videos in my collection of a diesel loco, on a coal train, sandwiched between two brake tenders.

I watched a video clip yesterday where the commentary insisted that the sequence had been shot in 1966, and the third coach of the train was in a very clean carmine & cream livery, although I still find the date hard to believe.

Another shot from the video 'North from Carlisle' shows a departure towards Glasgow with a chocolate and cream Mk1 coach in the formation, and I'm sure that on the Marsden Rail Volume 'Hull', a Stanier 4-6-0 passes on a Bridlington holiday extra and the third coach is a maroon Hawksworth one.

'Running In' / works test trains possibly, I doubt that any Deltic would have been scheduled for such a turn, considering the situation with the Deltic's at the time - a very expencive bit of kit to risk on such a train AIUI...

failed

Yes, anything can happen in an emergency, or could, now there wouldn't be any spare stock, the TOC would just dig deep, pay the fine and cancel the service....

diesel

That was a standard mod of operating, and why brake renders were only the height they were.

Was this on one of the Huntley Archive films, if so there are some glaring errors, but to be fair it's not always the fault of the Huntley Archive, they can only go on the information that has been logged for the film rushes...

had a book from the library a few years back - showed a long shot of an unidentified deltic on a frieghtliner service on Hatfield viaduct! How many times have deltics hauled freight?

quite common on MR... Cricklwood nearly always formed the consist like this for short range stuff. Got a piccy of a 25 at CW thus formed on 9D00

they were also fitted with four lamp brackets to take the standard loco reporting codes as the obscured the front of the loco

No, but I know what you mean about the Huntley videos, especially the diesel ones, having a lot of errors. You would have thought he would have checked all details before going ahead with the commentary. The clip I refer to is on a TVP video called "Diesel & Electric Journey Through The 60s" and it is the first train seen in a long sequence filmed at Bromford Bridge. And it is the second coach, not the third, (my memory is failing). The thing about this (on watching the clip again) is that there is nothing to suggest that the sequence was not recorded in 1966. The train engine is a green Peak with small yellow panel, the coach in question is a CK, but the train passes the camera at about 60mph so that further detail is difficult. There is nothing on the film to suggest any switch of year during the sequence (the colours, weather and surroundings all look the same). Unfortunately the train headcode is unreadable. The next train in the sequence is also interesting as it is a coal train 8G15 with a Sulzer type2 (cl25) and a BRCW type2 (cl26) double heading. The number of the 25 is not readable but after stepping frame by frame through the video the 26 looks like D5332. Both are filthy and have small yellow panels, which would not be wrong for 1966. So maybe at least one carmine and cream Mk1 did survive in service until 1966.

Now I know your lying, Hatfield viaduct indeed !...

I think you mean Welwyn viaduct :~)

errr... yeah - that bottle neck bit... - I was sure it was Hatfield but I have been known to be mistaken before - once or twice :o)

Look. Forget the pedantic arguments.

Can I make a plea that this thread becomes continuous to provide modellers with small pieces of information that they may find invaluable?

I have watched another video of Glasgow Buchanan Street, and I am pretty sure that a couple of the coaches in the train behind 62045 shunting empty stock, are maroon liveried Bulleid coaches.

I would like to see proper detailed train formations given a place on the internet, rather than have a few 'self styled authorities' saying what can and what can be run on certain trains in certain places,.

OK....

saying

Err, no you can't, you seem to think that sort of comment is being pedantic....

Been thinking about this, can you remember when the photo was taken, the reason I ask is because AFAICR freightliner services were very rare beasts on that section of the Kings X end of the GNR (most went via the GE and Stratford or Cricklewood etc. IIRC) [1]. I'm wondering if this train was / had been a part of an BRB exhibition or depot open day exhibit and what was photographed was a special stock movement.

[1] or they were up to the mid '70's, which is the point at which I lost contact with the ER, moving to the far more interesting SR and it's motorised coaches.... ! :~)

I wish to point out that Deltics, Peaks or EE Type 4's used to regularly work at least one morning service from Hertford North to Kings Cross on non coridor outer suburban stock. I travelled on the service several times with mainly EE Type 4's on the service but I do remember travelling behind MELD on one service. The train usually terminated in platform 1 at Kings Cross. The loco was then used on a Newcastle service which left the Cross after

10.00.

With regard to Deltics being used on freights, one working which I saw twice, in the late 1960's, was a northbound freightliner which used to go through Hadley Wood around 20.00.

Ian Robinson

Interesting, were had it come from and why a Deltic, it seems off route a tad (there being no reason for it to be on that part of the ex GNR, as for the Deltic, even more interesting.....

sorry Jerry I can't remember. I can't even remember the name of the book although it might have bee about freightliner in general as I think it had a recount of a 47 stopped on Brentwood bank and peaking at 8000 Amps to get the lot moving again, and the abortive "guards van" container which resulted in guards travelling in the rear cab coz the riding was much better (freightliners being sprung for heavy loads) than in the guards container on the ail end. Might be enough here to trigger someone's memory/ library?

The book in question is 'Life and Times- Freightliner' by Michael J Collins, published by Oxford/Haynes, ISBN 0-86093-455-1. The Freightliner you mention as being hauled by a Deltic was probably from the Kings Cross Terminal (York Way), which lasted until 1986. At this point, Freightliner re-orientated itself as a haulier of boxes from ports to inland terminals, and closed most of the original city terminals (Newcastle, Dudley, Manchester Longsight etc). From it's inception in the mid-1960s, Freightliner had a selection of terminals in the London area- Park Royal(concentrating on china clay traffic from Par and steel from South Wales), Willesden (now operated by EWS, and dealing largely in Channel Tunnel traffic),York Way, Maiden Lane( closed for many years), Stratford (now closed, the site being partially occupied by the CTRL works) and Barking (still open, being dedicated to contract trains from Southampton). Brian

At that time there was a freightliner depot at Kings Cross and I think the Deltics were Gateshead ones so I assume it was going to Tyneside.

Ian Robinson

Ahh eight, I didn't realise that regarding KX freight depot, and the traction sounds like a 'balancing' working. Thanks :~)

As far as I know, it's still in print. The original Manchester depot was Longsight, wasn't it, before things move out to Trafford Park. Ardwick was a 'full-loads terminal', -basically a conventional goods depot, but dealing in complete wagon loads, rather than the 'sundries' depots. These disappeared into either National Carriers or Rail Express Parcels at the end of the 1960s. Brian