TOWER HOBBIES SERVICE SUCKS!

| On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:24:11 -0500, "zara" wrote: ... | >How exactly do you learn that? By screwing up first? Or maybe you can | >recommend a book. | | Regardless of where it comes from, everything should be trial fit | prior to gluing... | | Common sense would dictate that - obviously a trait zara lacks....

No, common sense doesn't dictate (or teach) that. Experience does. Though if you've got many years of experience, I can see how it might be easy to confuse the two.

The others are correct though -- any time you're assembling something, it's generally a good idea to try and put it together without using the glue or nails or whatever else the first time and see how it fits (or even `if' it fits.) This doesn't just apply to modelling -- it generally applies to any sort of construction or repair. Sure, there are cases where it's not practical or possible, but generally it's a good idea to check that things fit before you commit yourself with glue.

zara may have a serious chip on his (her?) shoulder, but 1) the question is certainly a valid one (where does one learn this?) and 2) zara's chip isn't the only one around here. (Though on the other hand, this newsgroup isn't Model Tech's paid support team. You're not _entitled_ to help -- you've got to be nice and friendly about it, or people will just not bother :)

As for where to learn this sort of stuff, perhaps Harry Higley's Getting Airborne I and II books, or his ARFing book? They're very popular -- your local hobby shop probably has them, and if not, they're easy to find online.

Which part of "common sense" did you not understand?

Thank you for proving my point yet again.

Experience relates to learned skills.. Common sense is innate, or it isn't.

Sounds exactly like common sense to me...

OHH- good answer - ya really got me on that one.

| >No, common sense doesn't dictate (or teach) that. Experience does. | >Though if you've got many years of experience, I can see how it might | >be easy to confuse the two. | | Experience relates to learned skills.. Common sense is innate, or it | isn't.

... and obviously you've confused the two. How to build things is a learned skill.

If you take somebody who's never built anything in their life, give them a kit and instructions, they'll probably try and follow the instructions, starting at page one and going from there.

Actually looking ahead and trying to verify that the instructions are actually accurate and that they mean what you think they mean is something you have to learn to do. They won't know that it's a good idea to read the entire instruction set first (unless the instructions tell them to) and they'll probably blindly trust that the instructions are accurate.

| >The others are correct though -- any time you're assembling something, | >it's generally a good idea to try and put it together without using | >the glue or nails or whatever else the first time and see how it fits | >(or even `if' it fits.) This doesn't just apply to modelling -- it | >generally applies to any sort of construction or repair. Sure, there | >are cases where it's not practical or possible, but generally it's a | >good idea to check that things fit before you commit yourself with | >glue. | | Sounds exactly like common sense to me...

Perhaps, if you consider common sense to be something that comes with experience. Somebody who's never built anything will not have the foresight to check for this sort of thing. Call it common sense, call it experience ... I don't care what you call it, but somebody who's never built or repaired anything probably won't have it.

Thanks for answering in a balanced manner Doug - I don't have any building issues, I've been doing it for a long time - I also have built kits with improper instructions. The only thing that saved me from a deconstruct or botch job was experience, a new guy would have probably made a mistake, or certainly been lost. Too bad everyone doesn't have the HUGE brainpower and extreme "common sense"as the OTHER Kevin.

so wait... does tower hobbies suck or not? :rolleyes

-- lowdiv

----------------------------------------------------------------------- lowdive's Profile:

To some people they do. The OP came in with the attitude that since he was perfect and could do no wrong that what he did wrong just had to be somebody else's fault.

Granted that if you don't know that the instructions are telling you to do something wrong. It's going to get done wrong. He just posted with the wrong attitude. I tend to respond with the same attitude.

To the OP. How does Tower Hobbies service suck if it was Model Tech that gave you the wrong instructions. Many of these off shore manufacturers are build these planes well, But the instructions they put in the box are more than likely translated from Chineese or Korean and don't come out quite right.

I hope you didn't give Model Tech this same bad attitude when you called them, because you would likely get no satisfaction out of them with it.

Blame UPS, FedEx, USPS or who ever shipped the darn thing. In this way there is enough to go around for everyone. :-)

Red S.

First of all - He never had an attitude with you at the start. You're the one who started with you're condescending attitude. Second - He never said he was perfect. Third - He was blowing off a little steam - why a few of you jerks took it personal is beyond me. Do you in fact own Tower Hobbies stock? Fourth - Don't bother answering with cute little witticisms - I'm long gone - maybe I'll be back in a month or so, to look in on you jerks.

Nah -- you don't get that many involved until you get the lawsuit going :-)

Cheers -- \_________Lyman Slack________/ \_______Flying Gators R/C___/ \_____AMA 6430 LM____ / \___Gainesville FL_____/ Visit my Web Site at

"Red Scholefield"

So soon?

May I ask what ARF you were building? I have a Model Tech on the shelf and I bet other who may have one would like to know? mk

Just remember,,, common sense isn't.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:50:06 GMT, "Six_O'Clock_High"

Hmm.. Missed that reply..

To reiterate: Common sense is INNATE. It's not something you can learn. Experience is learned. I give you my sister in law: PhD in mathematics. Incredibly smart woman. Not an OUNCE of common sense. So much so she comes off as unintelligent in daily conversation.

Your (zara) *experience* in kit building "saved" you from a mistake. Yeah, the new guy probably would have made a mistake or been lost (been there, done that) but seeking help from (as you so eloquently put it in a prior post) 'some of the big Blowhard "experts" on this group.' wouldn't be experience. It would be common sense.

Again, my initial statement was simply that common sense dicates a trial fit before gluing/welding/trimming or whatever - doesn't even have anything to do with modeling.

Unfortunately, this is all too true.

I think this is a Nature versus Nurture type of argument. ie did someone learn something/ behaviour or was it in them at birth.

If you watch a child trying to push different shaped bricks through shaped holes. At first they simply don't get it and try pushing square bricks through round holes. Over months/ years of experimentation they finally get it and figure out that square bricks go through square holes.

You could say that it is common sense that a square brick goes in a square hole. But you could also show that that common sense was achieved through many years of trial and error as a kid.

As an aside:- I've also noticed that many intelligent people who appear to have no common sense whatsoever are not always as dumb as they appear. Having learnt through experience that appearing dumb is often easier and more profitable.

I'd hoped it wouldn't develop into an argument.. I'd rather have a lively discussion any day.

Same could be said for a hot stove. Small children who've never burned themselves on one will still poke their fingers at it, even though mom and dad have told them over and over again that it's hot. I saw all 3 of my kids do it.

True. The line between common sense and experience is a fine line indeed. Perhaps it's my perception of common sense that's based on my life and seeing the same "common sense" in my 8 year old boy that's "warped" some how. It's scary how much of me is in him... (and he looks JUST like I did at his age)

Like I said, my sister in law is highly intelligent but literally has no common sense. I've seen her walk blithely across a busy street without looking either direction and reach into an oven to retrieve a hot dish with no oven mitt or even a towel to protect her hands. Conversely, I've seen her work out very complex math problems like she was adding single digit numbers. She's got a photographic memory as well. It's almost humorous to watch her. I literally shake my head at what she just doesn't get sometimes...

Actually I agree with you! The only thing Tower is interested in doing is pushing as much merchandise out the door that they can! They have no conscience or scruples about what they might sell whether it be the finest known to man or the absolute worse "shit" made in a cave in Asia.

They employ a lot of advertising gimmicks to portray themselves as the modeler's best friend only next to Jesus or whomever your God is. However, I don't really regard them as a very ethical outfit.

If they cared about what they sold, they would examine the quality of the materials and the accuracy of the instructions that come with the kits or items they sell. Regardless of what many of you think regarding the responsibility of providing warranty service in the case of Model Tech, it isn't a big deal for any vendor be it the local hobby shop of a big company like Tower to check out what they are selling.

When one pays a hundred bucks or more for a box full of balsa and some covering, he shouldn't have to be concerned if the parts fit together correctly or if they are all there. One glaring tip off that something is made offshore is a set of confusing and often illegible instructions. A vendor or importer could end this practice quite quickly by refusing to stock the offending merchandise.

Ciao,

Mr Akimoto

LOL mk