Don't Bring A Knife To A Gunfight

Bill's on my twitlist, so tell him for me that to see a person stand up for himself where the cops can't is A Good Thing. It is the type of people upon whom this country was founded. While I agree that it's sad that the perp was so drawn, it's good that the shop owner stopped him cold, with whatever means necessary. He's reacting to reality, not some ideal. Have Bill work his ideal on the -perps-, not us. If violence is so bad, if Bill had been there, would he have tried to prevent the shop owner from stopping the truly violent person in that store? Would he have gone after the perp empty handed? Feh!

That was purely self defense and defense of his other clients by the shop owner. The cops are surely calling it a righteous shoot.

-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch

"Bill Noble" wrote

I can see that you are no fan of history, or a reader of books. Should you be such a reader, you would understand that we are lessening the incidences where people use violence against violence.

In the old west, and in the last three hundred years, the shootings of "bad guys" was considered a good thing because it removed that person from society, and they could not murder or rape or commit violence again. And lots of times, the police force did the deed, but in many cases, ordinary citizens put an end to someone's criminal career, and in a lot of cases walked. Or were never identified, or even searched for very hard.

When was this historical period where all this Pollyannaish behavior was the norm? I'd be curious to know, as I have never heard of it. It only seems like recently when we get all this "Can't we all just get along" mentality.

And when you speak of what we have given up, about the major things I can see that we have surrendered are gun rights, rights of privacy, and the right to be safe in our own homes and on our own properties.

Steve

And I like that gangsta grip with the weapon on the horizontal.

Steve

It was a different camera angle. If you watch it and remember from the first clip what the store owner did, you can compare the movements and see that it was a different camera.

This was also in another country, judging by the surroundings, the car on the street, and the signs. Jim

You are right about the motive. Certainly the shooting was completely justified, but there is a story behind this video. What made this lunatic want to kill the store clerks? Something made him mad as hell. Did they gang rape his daughter? With out us knowing the whole backstory, the gloating by some in this thread betrays their blood thirstyness.

Read my response later in the thread, My point is, and Bill's is similar, that there seems to be no awareness or consideration for security, other than having a gun handy. Without such awareness and forethought, you might as well advertise "I AM A VICTIM". Everything I have learned, especially since joining IDPA is geared to NOT being a victim. This shooting was just waiting to happen and if the proprietor doesn't change things the same thing will happen again and again.

The guy walked in and the first thing he did was slash the throat of some guy who apparently was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It, therefore, is difficult to attribute some variety of rational motive to the perp.

This (just a guess) looks like it could have been Turkey where this incident took place. Maybe radical Islamic pissed off because store sells booze? Lots of store owners selling booze in Iraq got killed by fundies.

It's difficult to say without some more info on the video though. Dave

Not rights...RESPONSIBILITIES! Be situationally aware, or be a victim. Most situations can easily be avoided. Police are available after the fact to draw chalk outlines and do paperwork.

no, that is not what I said - I haven't watched the movie and I don't intend to. What I said is that we used to find this violence offensive and bad, and every respondent except me has done nothing but gloat over the employment of violence. That is what is sad, not that someone in defense of their life was successful. I stand by my statement, you guys are sick

"Bill Noble" fired this volley in news:i8infa$145$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

Nobody here gloated over the use of violence. Any sane person (including soldiers) avoid it, if any other possibility exists.

If any "gloating" was enjoyed, it was over "justice" employed by the hand of the victim of the crime where no amount of "situational awareness" could possibly have prevented the crime.

Do you, for a moment, think that the customer whose throat was cut had any possibility of expecting that attack?

Opinions like yours are part of the very source of this kind of crime. "Let the victim be compassionate" should not be the catch-phrase of crime prevention.

LLoyd

LLoyd

I wasn't happy watching the guy with the knife cutting people. I found that very offensive.

One of the guys that got slashed had a firearm and used it to stop the cutting spree. IIRC, one shot, bad guy down, he stopped shooting.

The guy will likely have nightmares from being slashed, maybe from killing the bad guy if the guy died.

Now if those of us that value peace but are not prepared to be a victim look favorably on a man that prevailed because he was prepared for potentialities, that does not make us sick. Tell me who you think that replied wants someone to come at them in order to have a chance to try out their marksmanship.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Here is some of the backstory:

This was in Turkey. The guy with the knife was the new owner of another store down the block. The shooter was the owner of this store and knew him but says he has NO IDEA what the other guy's problem was. Obviously something went on between the two that the shooter is not talking about. This is a tragedy where the shooter probably is not completely innocent. All the knifing victims survived.

"Let the perp die a very slow and painful death" is a better approach. Make the SOBs well aware that their life is forfeit, if they do the crime. No third strike. No second strike. Commit a violent crime and pay for it.

"anorton" fired this volley in news:4ZGdnQFnm4eacDHRnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

Which also means the perp was too stupid to know how to sharpen a knife.

The first attack should have been fatal. Gladly, it was incompetently done, and (apparently) was not.

LLoyd

Yeah, what's a Malaysian proprietor to do? Catching (and actually dealing with) the criminals before they become the bad (both inept and nasty) and violent ones like this would be a nice start.

-- You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. --Jack London

Well, at least that's one butter knife on the streets out there which won't be inflicting red marks on people's throats any more.

-- You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. --Jack London

"Buerste" wrote

So, is being situationally aware and knowing in advance that you are going to die better than having a gun around just on the off chance? Situational awareness can keep a lot of people out of a jam. But once you're IN a jam, or the attack has begun, or the route of retreat is blocked, does situational awareness kick in with endorphins that help you die with less pain?

Steve

Think what you want, but if you are ever in a Luby's, or McDonald's, or other situation where there is a camoed up shooter, no, you cannot borrow my gun. If that makes me sick, then I'm sick. Is being willing to defend one's own life, and those of innocent bystanders an indication of being sick, and if so, how so?

Steve

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote

IIRC, soldier training stresses that wounding an opponent takes several men to take care of that wounded person. Killing them is the less tactical move.

Steve