Vise grips tools

I use vice grips a lot and I have never blanched at the price. I have however used imitation vice grips and I was less than satisfied with the result.

Reply to
Roger Shoaf
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I've never minded buying the good ones at full price, either. I still have every pair I ever bought, plus my father's and my uncle's. My father's are so old they don't even have the release lever. They're about the same age as I am. Jeez.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:11:41 -0500, the infamous "Pete C." scrawled the following:

And they (mostly Democrats), in turn, produce tons of "victims".

-- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Well, if cost is no problem:

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Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

They have been made in China for the past year.

Irwin is selling off the plant because it has sat idle for a while.

Reply to
Steve W.

Bingo. Genuine vise-grips by Petersen Mfg really do work significantly better than any Chinese knockoffs I've found, so I'm willing to pay more for them. I'm apparently in a lonely minority with that opinion, but I probably have enough of them to outlast me.

Reply to
Don Foreman

i recently bought 4 of those pincer kind of vice grips, i bit the bullet and "bought american". vice grip brand. it "hurt" but i share your opinion, they work better.

b.w.

Reply to
William Wixon

"Don Foreman" wrote

Ditto for me. The originals will be around for a long time, and I sure the hell won't go pay more for Chinese clones. I got enough for my lifetime, and if I need more, I'll go on ebay.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

I bought about three dozen various ones on ebay for half or less than retail.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Currently on ebay 8 11r clamps $100. Typical, but I've paid less.

Reply to
SteveB

(...)

I used three of the little pincer style 'grips yesterday to duplicate a wire 'bail' used as part of an enclosure clamp.

Use one 'grip to clamp the replacement wire in parallel with the model, bend the replacement wire and use the second 'grip to fix it in place on the model, right at the position of the subsequent bend. Make the next bend and fix that in place with the third 'grip. Make the next bend and move the first 'grip to fix the wires in parallel at the position of the next bend. Keep bending and moving clamps until you have the right shape. Trim the ends and you are done. I made two wire bails in about 10 minutes using this method. They both work perfectly.

--Winston

Reply to
Winston

When put that way I have to agree. I have every pair I ever bought used/abused and they all work okay yet. I have my Dad's too and the true Vise-Grips are all in better working shape than the off-brand ones. The early China/Japan/Taiwan versions are in the worst shape. Probably got our moneys worth out of them though (shrug).

I haven't been buying any new ones because I haven't really needed any. I did bite on one of these a few weeks ago though:

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It has a China patent number stamped into it. I don't think Vise-Grip has anything quite like it, but I could be mistaken. Had planned on cutting it in two and adding some bars in the middle to make it even longer. Figured out another way to solve my problem though and it is still intact.

Reply to
Leon Fisk

those with a

What I've seen is that a good education/resume gets you an interview and possibly the job. What the business really wants though is someone that doesn't call in sick, follows instructions, can use a keyboard/computer and does little if any problem solving on their own. Doesn't make any sense, but that's the way it is...

Reply to
Leon Fisk

I've worked with several people that didn't have any Vise-Grip style tools. When they need to be in two places at once they go find another person to help. I figure out how to do things by myself, because there isn't anyone else around and even it there was they have their own job to do. Vise-Grip style tools allow you to be in two or more places at the same time, allowing you to complete the job by yourself.

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Wow, that's the Long Dong model. They're pretty rare.

Since this thread started I pulled out a couple of my old ones, and it looks to me like the Chinese, if they're trying to cut costs on these things, are making a foolish mistake. Vise-Grips are so simple to manufacture that shaving a few pennies on materials or tooling probably is more a result of their "make it cheaper" mindset than good economics. But I have to admit that I haven't looked closely at the Chinese-made models.

The whole thing is mostly blanked steel pieces bent over in a simple forming die; one piece is a simple forging -- more likely a coining -- and the jaws are brazed on. Maybe the jaws themselves are a vanadium alloy but the rest is certainly plain high-carbon steel. The stamping that holds the top jaw is probably ironed when it's bent.

It was things like this that the Japanese seized on when they started to move up-market by making quality products. They could make things like that just as good as Western-made ones, but they still had lower labor costs and other cost advantages from export assistance and (mostly) bank ownership that cut their capital costs. Maybe the Chinese are just getting to that point now.

In any case, given their long life and the importance of their being well-made, it's still worth it, IMO, to pay for the real thing.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

The ones that haven't held up well (foreign made) are bent. I would guess that they used lower grade steel in the stamped pieces (couldn't hold their shape) and rivets. The holes for the rivets were sloppier which didn't help either. The jaws become loose along with the frame parts, ie not in true alignment when clamped down. These were older samples probably from 15-20 years ago. From what I've seen just picking up and handling the newer China versions they addressed some of these short comings. I would have to abuse some of the new ones a little to figure out if the steel is any better or not.

I could probably get some pictures of the weak areas if you are really curious.

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Thanks, Leon, but don't do it for my sake. I've seen enough Chinese Junque to satisfy my curiosity.

They make lousy tooling and they shave pennies where it hurts. Left to their own, they don't seem to know how to make good press tools. Most of their good products come from plants that have Western or Japanese management.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I would expect the Chinese Vise-Grip version to look nearly identical to the USA version.

They can definitely duplicate the overall appearance of nearly any goods, as they've proven with their many counterfeit goods, but looks don't mean squat when it comes to durable, reliable tools that last.

I can't think of a single item that I've seen, as far as tools or hardware made in China, that are equal in quality to the USA's better quality domestic products.

It's probably a reasonable expectation that breakage and bending of parts of the Chinese version Vise-Grips will be higher than the USA products. I expect that the thickness (and/or quality) of the metal will be reduced, less braze applied, and other shortcuts taken as confidence in the products fades.

One of the few cost-cutting advantages of having Vise-Grip products made in China may be lower energy costs (steel making and production equipment overhead), but I would expect that shipping costs would be equal to, or greater than the savings.

I don't know, but I've long suspected that imported Chinese products are essentially subsidized by the US taxpayers, who end up paying a significant portion of the costs involved in shipping and importation, aside from, and in addition to the cost of purchasing the goods. There are too many people parroting the phrase "it's cheaper to make over there", without considering other possibilities.

Putting most of the Chinese goods into landfill holes and piling dirt on top may be the answer to rising ocean levels. As the landscape is raised 50-100 feet, rising oceans would be less of a threat.

Reply to
Wild_Bill

speaking about vice grips...

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(i'm guessing if the (chinese knock off) vice grips fell off the trailer would come loose?)

further stuff...

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(thought of iggy, the swingset 2/3rd's the way down the page.)

oh, and the rollercoaster... sheesh. (2/3rd's down)

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Reply to
William Wixon

I am of the opinion that when it comes to essentially simple stuff such as Vise-Grips, that the Chinese are fully capable of meeting the original quality specifications. Making vise grips is not rocket science, all it involves is proper materials and proper tooling running on automated machines. To say that the Chinese cannot make same simple stampings as are done the US, is silly.

The reason why so many Chinese products are junk, is because the American customers or retailers ask them to produce goods at the bottom of the barrel price, with very lax quality specifications, just so that the goods sell and last until the customer loses the store receipt. Ultimately, if they are asked to produce junk all the time, they might forget a little what it takes to make quality stuff, but it should not be hard to recall.

In other words, blaming the Chinese for low quality of goods at Kmart and Walmart, is not really fair, the determination of the quality to be produced comes from those retailers.

I would expect the Chinese to have more difficulties reproducing the quality of space shuttles, but not the quality of Vise Grips.

Despite that, I would not be willing to pay the "Irwin Premium".

i
Reply to
Ignoramus13479

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