Ray, as usual you are completely distorting the issue
I never discussed, for example, TRA "closed door" or "black box"
decision making policies. They assert that they have been delegated
deliberation and decision-making power by the membership.
my comments regarding (dis)honestly have to do with fraudulent motor
certification and mismanagement of funds.
there is no comparable history in ARSA
<< I never discussed, for example, TRA "closed door" or "black box" decision
I never said you did, although you do seem to be bringing that up now.
<<They assert that they have been delegated deliberation and decision-making
power by the membership.>>
It's not an assertion, it's a fact. I was there when the membership voted to
give them that power.
<<there is no comparable history in ARSA >>
Give it enough time and there will be, whether true or not. Any organization
that's been around long enough will accumulate its share of malcontents,
crackpots and people who claim "corruption" everytime someone crosses them.
George, that is how I came to know ARSA and how it is (or is not) structured.
The web site says all that it is.
Most web sites do not say all that there is about the organizations or groups
that host them. So it would be faulty logic to assume that if a site lacked
certain information, that the topics of information sought did not exist.
No reasonable person is going to assume that if something is not found on an
organization's website, that must mean what wasn't found does not exist. A
reasonable person would try to ask someone who should know. Hoping that the
person they asked would know and would give a reasonable reply.
So I tried that. Izzy, the one most likely to know more than anyone on RMR,
just refused to answer, and danced around it. That was a very curious response.
Ignore in this case (and you know this) was based on thread abuse, but you
purposely distorted it to secrecy, and led others to believe that.
When simple basic questions about an organization are not answered, with the
excuses given by Izzy, they leave the impression that there is something that
is being hidden. And it was hidden. ARSA's web site nowhere says that ARSA has
no by-laws, has no elections, is only run by one person, and that ARSA has no
The thread abuse was when Izzy chose to expand his Cato/TRA thread (already a
major RMR Troll effort on his part to "facilitate" posts from the rocket hobby
traitor and now too cowardly to directly post as himself John Cato) into
splintered off "action" threads, with variations on a theme based on the same
vendetta by Izzy/Cato. So, sure, I posted my questions into that so called
action thread (the different flavors of it), to see if Izzy's claimed intent
held water about rocket organizations in general. It didn't, since anything
that was not against TRA was declared to be off-topic by Izzy, regardless of
the cases where copying my questions were relevant. Even when Izzy wants to run
a thread about openness and honesty then deems questions about ARSA's structure
to be off-topic to shun anyone else from bringing it up too, that shows you
Izzy's intent was not about openness and honesty.
- George Gassaway
you asked me specifically about a list of organizational practices, to
which I promptly and clearly responded that they simply do not apply to ARSA
within a few posts of that, Jerry responded to your remark that ARSA is
an unincorporated association
withing a few posts of that, I affirmed Jerrys statement
yet you persisting in asking for the very same information
I was not the one dancing
that is patently false
I have responded to many posts that are on topic in the "action: "
threads, most haev which haev no mention of TRA whatsoever
your comments were off-topic
ultimately I created an "action: organization structure" thread to focus
discussion should anyone have genuine interest in the distinctions
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org>
<< you asked me specifically about a list of organizational practices, to which
I promptly and clearly responded that they simply do not apply to ARSA >>
Yet you failed to give any detail at that time about the actual structure of
the organization. You stated what it isn't, without saying anything about what
I wasn't asked specifically about ARSA structure....
Some questions that were specifically asked about:
Board (or whatever form of leadership)
You specifically danced away from any reasonable reply.
Or are you trying to make people believe that those questions have nothing to
do with "structure"?
- George Gassaway
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