Right. ARSA = JW. So it can not be infiltrated, but it can be entrenched.
FWIW, I don't think George has anything to do with TRA. His methods may be a bit rude (nobody else like that on THIS forum, eh?) but his questions are valid. If we are going to pry open the doors on one organization, why shouldn't we better understand the alternative? How much input and direction does ARSA get from its members? If I don't like the direction ARSA is heading, how can I (as a member) change that? I suspect the answers are: none, quit.
that is perfectly fine. However, it is not pertinent to the conversation on the thread framework regarding what is [theoretically] possible for a rocketry organization.
if you want to mke observations about ARSA policies; e.g. it's safety code, in the context of that conversation, that is appropriate. As you do not know much about its structure, you cannot say much more than what you have already said; so then move on.
as I am not a functionary in ARSA, but a member contributing my time and energy freely, working in cooperation with other ARSA members toward common objectives, I cannot speak to the question of how information flows. I know how it flows within my cooperative group, and JW. It is very informal, open and empowering to all involved. I find it refreshing and extremely effective, and I trust my associates feel the same way.
In terms of ARSA's direction, it is simple and clear, and it will not change - ever.
"The Amateur Rocketry Society of America's (ARSA) goal is to enable US citizens to enjoy all forms of amateur rocketry."
if you feel that the pursuit of that goal serves your interests, then become a member. Remain a member as long as that is true. If (inconceivably, IMO) ARSA abandons that goal, or you no longer share that goal, then neither you nor I should remain a member.
This is very straightforward. Everything that ARSA has done, and will continue to do, is in support of this simple goal.
Now, what kind of activities would ARSA need to do, and what would it need to refrain from, in order to pursue that goal faithfully?
it would have to have some sense of what constitutes "amateur rocketry".
well, amateur rocketry in ARSA means any rocketry that is non-commercial and non-military in nature. That is not to say that projects members undertake may not have commercial application. It just says that those applications are not among ARSAs goals.
it would also have to have some sense of what constitutes "enjoyment".
I think it is reasonable to assume that in order to enjoy something it should not involve serious inhury or death to yourself or others, property damage for which you may be liable by reasons of neglect or recklessness, and risk of arrest and conviction for illegal activity.
hence the straightforward safety code
also note that many of the arbitrary and restrictive codes, policies and processes characteristic of TRA and NAR (like user and motor certification) have no place in ARSA. Enjoyment of amateur does not necessate them, nor are they necessary to the legal practice of amateur rocketry. So we refrain from having them.
now note item 4.1 in that code
"All launches of rockets must be conducted in compliance with Federal, State, and Local law"
well, that speaks to Ray's question about John Cato's philosophy. ARSA requires that launch activities, including the propellants in use, are legal in the eyes of the various levels of government. You won't be enjoying "all forms of amateur rocketry" very well from inside a cell. So a fundamental activity of ARSA has been and will continue to be creating and maintaining a rocketry environment that is free from arbitrary and excessive regulation, while allowing use of all legal materials, propellants and avionics.
this is what distinguishes ARSA
it is based on a premise that rocketry is good, you are all responsible enough to explore it through use of any legal materials, and that we as members have a stake in determining the legal status of materials we'd like to use.
I believe you are not allowed to trust them with your money yet. I have not had to. You email them and say join and your are joined. Therefore it is an unincorporated association. An informal club if you will.
TRA on the other hand is incorporated in the State of Alaska (to make suing them more difficult, and it has worked).
TRA charges a membership fee and PROMISES certain benefits. It has breached numerous of those promises after consideration has been paid by literally thousands of people. It makes new promises year after year and breaches many of those as well.
So at least at this moment in time the organization with the credibility gap is Tripoli Rocketry Association, Incorporated (Incorporated in Alaska, HQ in Orem, UT at Brucie's house, the very guy the TRA BOD gave an ultimatum to, it was breached, the recourse was not implemented and both Brucie and TRA BOD are continuing on their merry theiving ways).
George's inquiry itself is misdirection. The reason for that is ARSA has appointed exactly nobody to any post or position, especially including "Izzy".
All of George's "inquiries" ask what Izzy is going to do as official ARSA facilitator (not even understanding what a facilitator is or does), or as official ARSA communications director or ARSA public relations, or mouthpiece, or whatever. After being told many, many times no such person exists on the planet. George is baiting. You took the bait. I suspect some others have as well. It is false. It is bait and it is intentional and malicious on the part of George Gasaway since he has been informed in clear terms on numerous occasions his presuppositions are false. He therefore is knowingly commiting fraud. Fact.
Based on my early input on the lesislative agenda, a lot. SB724 if enacted quickly as originally planned (BY Sen Enzi, not by JW or JI or anyone else in rocketry per se) sans actual interference from NAR and TRA would have been a permanant god send to ALL rocketeers, MR, HPR, AR (EX does not exist).
Jerry
It only has ONE agenda item. SB724. As simple as falling off a log.
This is worth emphasizing. arbitrary restrictive legal
Muchof what NAR and TRA do directly violate their own bylaws, mission statements and stated objectives at board meetings. They often, perhaps typically, violate their own rules, ethics, and charter.
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