ARSA info request for Izzy

NO, Iz did NOT write...

Duane Phillips did. But since you cropped half the other stuff anyhow to put your spin on it, I guess that point is moot, eh?

Never. But ARSA's members pay no fees either, therefore the ENTIRE idea is supported by volunteer work, unlike NAR and TRA, therefore, they don't compare.

Exactly my point... what of it?

Here, we get to your spin doctoring again. This isn't about what I want, it is about your trying to compare ARSA to TRA on an organizational level.

Nice spin... NOT. This statement wasn't about PEOPLE going away. It was about their right to complain when they have vested something into it. Spin again.

On this point, I withdraw my statement of "thousands", as quite frankly, I do not know. I have seen enough said to know that many have, but I cannot say with any degree knowlege exactly how many are current members, nor how many are pending. But go ahead, make it look like a small insignificant dictator's rumor-mill. It will only serve to make you look smaller and more insignificant.

I will modify and reiterrate, that is was their views on the regulation of consumer rocketry, that enticed me to join, and many others of which I _do_ know.

You are really searching, and it is showing. They have a safety code, that allows people to enjoy the hobby, not restrict them from it. I noted the point that is different right there above where you ignored it. There is a difference in what is allowed... but go ahead, ignore it again.

First, I didn't explicitly say TRA. But I have WRT NAR. However, NAR seems to look past it now especially since many of their members belong to more than one organization.

Yes, it is well known that the freedom to not fly motors which are not on TRA or NAR cert. lists is well documented.

~ Duane Phillips.

Reply to
Duane Phillips
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No but you can volunteer to spend a vastly disproportionate sum on a pet project :)

Alternative motor cert program with no permits asked by non-governmental agencies?

Host launches where indy rules apply not NAR or TRA rules?

I did.

Point.

Tom should do it (as well).

Izzy was never appointed or even "officially approved".

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Why is it your defective brain takes a clear statement, "the caris black" as meaning "you mean it is the ONLY black car"?

or, "oh you mean my car is not black"?

Your logic gene is missing and your logic learning skill is non-existent.

Jerry

ignore dribble following.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

organization?

Reply to
Duane Phillips

this was necessary because of the laws governing raffles.

I recall a post where a principal contributor of SRN personnally guaranteed the "safety" of the funds donated

without that guarantee, and the reputation of the person making it, SRN would never have met its goal

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Agreed. On the strength of that promise I invested.

It is instructive to note Pat G is on the TRA BOD so there ARE good people in bad places.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

I have not made an issue out of its structure.

I have helped demonstrate how individuals (named and unnamed) in the leaderhip have committed breaches of their fiduciary responsibilities, putting members and others at risk.

I have no issue that they have a BoD.

I have an issue with that the BoD includes corrupt individuals, and that BoD actions reflect their influence.

if the leadership had integrity, were competent, and faithfully represented the interests of its members, I would applaud their accomplishments.

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

here is a very simple answer: I do not have that information

the administrative work is still in progress, and will take a few weeks to get caught up

I expect that in the next month or so some announcement will be made on the website

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

LOL! that about sums it up, doesn't it

- iz

Jerry Irv>>What, you think ARSA is the only organization run by volunteers?? >

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Translation: "It's good when it's my guy, and it's bad when it's your guy."

Man, this Weasel Words dictionary is really coming in handy!

;)

Reply to
RayDunakin

So elected leadership IS a possibility? You'd better not tell Iz, he's already said he'd leave ARSA if that ever happened.

Reply to
RayDunakin

do your quotes ever have any relationship what the author actually said?

- iz

RayDunak> Jerry wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

What does volunteering have to do with anything? TRA is also a volunteer organization. So is NAR. So is RRS, and most other non-profit/private organizations.

The fact remains that the rank and file members have no say, and are in fact discouraged from it.

Reply to
RayDunakin

discouraged from what Ray, speaking?

now you are really just making stuff up!

in my experience, the cooperative contribution of members is one of our greatest assets.

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Personally, I have more confidence with John Wickman's leadership. That is something that propective members have to judge for themselves.

Reply to
GCGassaway

Duane,

You took on to reply to a message that I addressed to Bob Kaplow. I was trying to see if some of the same words expressed by Izzy on behalf of ARSA did not remind him of words from the past expressed by some other people.

Unfortunately, it seems Bob either missed it or chose not to make a reply.

I really was curious to see if he recognized going down the same road.

While you were free to reply, some of what I referenced in my reply to Bob were things in context from the past that only Bob and some others from years back would have seen at the time and might recall.

BTW - Duane, I'm a volunteer, like hundreds of people in the NAR are. The only paid position in the NAR is Marie Stumpe at Headquarters.

- George Gassaway

Reply to
GCGassaway

Oops, sorry Duane.

NAR and TRA are supported entirely by volunteers as well. Not only the volunteers elected or chosen to serve the organization, but also each member voluntarily supports it via membership fees.

I have no problem with their views on regulation. I too am in favor of minimal government interference.

Because I don't agree that it's different. Flyer certs are not really any different from, say, pad distances. It's a safety issue. Yes, it could be argued that someone who hasn't been a member for a long time _could_ still be capable of flying at their previous cert level, but since there's no way to establish that, there has to be a cutoff. And how big a deal is it to recert anyway?

Exqueeze me? Who's stopping you from flying anything you want at a non-sanctioned launch?

Reply to
RayDunakin

Since the conversation was related to the differences between ARSA and TRA, how else was I supposed to take it? Both are run by volunteers, yet the comment I was responding to made it sound as if volunteerism was featured only in ARSA.

Reply to
RayDunakin

if the organization is no longer aligned with your aspirations, you leave. What is the cost?

in your mind, not mine, and many not others. JW inspires sufficient confidence for them to take the time to send an email, which is all it takes to become a member. There is no cost.

I understand their desire to provide a "warm and fuzzy" feeling to their members. I would be more concerned with the organization's vision being compromised by a vigorous lobbyist.

I do not expect my doctor to win an election, nor do I trust someone to elect his replacement. I choose my doctor based on a number of confidence factors, including his track record and endorsements from his patients. At some point I decide to trust someone.

I still have the same doctor going on 17 years now, and I fully expect our relationship to end with either his death or mine (in addition to Internal Medicine, he is also a Geriatrician, so there is no telling how old either of us will be when that happens).

:)

I don't know John's intent in that respect, but I trust him to look after my interests as a rocketeer.

I did, I said they were not required. Within a few posts, Jerry observed that ARSA is an "unincorporated association". Within a few posts of that I affirmed that observation.

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Whether you call it an idea or principle, it's still not very specific. How will ARSA deal with all the various government agencies that currently regulate rocketry, or plan to regulate it further?

How is this any different from any other organization??

Reply to
RayDunakin

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