ARSA info request for Izzy

Nice spin, again. The fact remains that TRA has been working to preserve rocketry from oppressive regulation for many, many years.

JW/ARSA are relatively latecomers in that battle, who refused to cooperate with anyone else and made a well-intentioned yet misguided and ill-timed attempt to introduce pro-rocketry legislation in Congress. That attempt, however noble it may have been, failed. Ever since, JW and Iz have attempted to shift the blame to TRA.

I bear no malace or ill-will toward Mr. Wickman. I don't think he had any bad intentions but simply made a very tempting judgement call in deciding to go ahead with that legislative attempt against the advice of others. What I do object to is his tantrums everytime TRA didn't jump fast enough to suit him; his attempts to blame TRA for the failed effort; and his subsequent attempts to paint TRA as the source of all evil in the world of rocketry.

Iz is a complete newby who entered the hobby within the past year, and has apparently made himself a tool for these destructive attacks. (And for the record, I bear no malace or ill-will toward you either, Iz.)

So how does he (as leader/whatever of ARSA) operate?

I see. It's ok by you to trash TRA anywhere at anytime in any forum, but when someone asks a simple question about ARSA, suddenly it has to be in the right thread? Ok, fine. Where will you post the answer to that question?

Of course he doesn't know much about ARSA's structure -- you've gone to great lengths to avoid shedding any light on it.

So much for being a "facilitator of communications".

So... how long have you been a mushroom, Iz? ;)

no, it would be more of the same I do not believe you are salvagable, but I am willing to be proved wrong

and what evidence do you have to support your deranged notion that John's leadership is problematic? besides 'your TRA's' agenda to dominate rocketry and rocketeers, which his example and actions expose?

show me, "improve TRA"

ARSA is just fine, thank you

- iz

BTW, I have answered Georges transparent attempt to distract readers from a positive exploration of what is possible for a rocketry organization

yes, we can all see that in NFPA 1125 and 1127 congratulations, you are now in the ironic position of having to save "rocketry" from oppressive regulations that you helped write!

no, TRA/NAR/Kyte willfully undermined virtually every call made to rally rocketeers against the BATFE, by prohibiting their support or delaying it so that its effectiveness would be diminished. FACTS, Ray, I was THERE.

John, I and many MANY others were astonished, exasperated and outraged at your deliberate efforts to keep rocketeers under the foot of government regulators (and your NFPA-granted franchises). As well as absolutely shamelessly insinuating into grass-roots efforts that they had no part in creating, to position themselves in the spotlight and take credit for the imagination and initiative of others.

I learned more about government regulations in the first quarter of this year than you ever knew in your entire career Ray, and have certainly made orders of magnitude more impact in the process to save rocketry. You should be ashamed to make a contrast in our 'ages' in rocketry, when you have done more damage than most with your incessant attempts to obscure and confuse the issues.

You would do far less damage if you just turned off your computer and went back to your rockets.

John Wickman leads us in the legislative initiative against oppressive rocketry regulation. Everyone knows that Ray! Even many TRA members who defied Dick Embry's prohibitions against helping in the fight, and wrote letters and made phone calls when asked.

no, its is not. Unfortunately that cannot be said for the TRA/NAR/Kyte triad that would encourage rocketeers to accept a 0.9 lb limit on [single use] "model rocket motors" for use in [cardboard] "recreational model rockets"

- iz

I am not going to waste my breathe Ray

- iz

RayDunak so much drivel

I answered your questions many times, over and over

you just don't know how to read

should read ...

John, I and many MANY others were astonished, exasperated and outraged at TRA/NAR/Kyte's deliberate efforts to keep rocketeers under the foot of government regulators (and your NFPA-granted franchises). As well as absolutely shamelessly insinuating TRA into grass-roots efforts that it had no part in creating, to position TRA/NAR in the spotlight and take credit for the imagination and initiative of others.

FWIW, I don't think George has anything to do with TRA. His methods may be a bit rude (nobody else like that on THIS forum, eh?) but his questions are valid. If we are going to pry open the doors on one organization, why shouldn't we better understand the alternative?

if you want to mke observations about ARSA policies; e.g. it's safety code, in the context of that conversation, that is appropriate. As you do not know much about its structure, you cannot say much more than what you have already said; so then move on.

DOH!!!

DOH!

DOH!

Oh, for cryin out loud. No wonder. What a goombah I am. ALL this time and all those honestly motivated posts I made to you. Geez, I feel like a frickin idiot. I'm just glad I have more concern over the hobby as a whole than I do for the TRA; I almost gave you a couple of, IMHO, great ideas in another thread. Oh man, I'd have hated myself. You could have carried this off for a lot longer, and mabye even made some progress, if you hadn't let Iron Man Poster and TRA SUPPORTER EXTRAORDINAIRE, Ray Dunakin, make you mad. (Thanks for hanging in there, Ray.)

Iz, I have to say it; good job. I was taken in, hook, line, and sinker. You ARE a communications facilitator, after all. You know, I KNEW there was something up, but I just couldn't quite figure out what. Why would Iz do this now, of all times? Why is he being so intransigent? Why bring up the past and open old wounds? Why is he picking such a destructive tact when he just wants answers? Why just the TRA? Why is he looking for input on organizational rule changes, when he believes an organization can work without any rules at all? If ARSA has the ideal structure, why wasn't he providing answers instead of asking for them?

Well, now I see that I needn't be concerned over the impact of your methods any longer, should I? What is it? The second ARSA Mission Statement? I'll have to look it up.

Gotta get off a couple e-mails (that will be embarassing, as well) and do a quick paradigm shift here. I have to go from planning how I could help you while minimizing adverse impact to the hobby, to how best to respond to your actual agenda.

C ya tomorrow.

ARSA currently has no membership supported budget. If it had a member supported budget, then members would need to (AND have the right to) have some say in the management of such. Since not, then either people can accept the VOLUNTEER effort as is, be a part of it, or do something else.

TRA and NAR, however, are supported by general member funds, and because of such, have OBLIGATIONS to their respective memberships such as you state.

You are comparing apples to coconuts. It is a totally different paradigm.

~ Duane Phillips.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

There is a default structure in law. That is what that law is for!

Liar.

Ever?

Liar.

Official rmr moron and liar.

No wonder you frequently call me a liar. It is transference.

Now we know a major source of FUD about me over the years is far from ap aragon of virtue and intellect himself. God bless. You will need it.

Jerry

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

Liar.

So what you were told directly, and ignored, was "deduced" by you based on presumptions from lies you told yourself? That is rich!

ROTFLOL.

Liar.

Then what do you call THIS noise by you? Disclosure? ROFL.

Liar.

First hand witness accounts are not "TRA-bashing". Ignore the fact he got TRA listed as an AHJ with NFPA. Ignore he was the first TMT chair to actually, gag, test motors as agreed. Ignore that later TMT chairs not only failed to pick up the ball but claimed motors they approved were tested by Cato.

Ignore that and if someone mentions it, definitely call it TRA bashing!

Fruit of the poison tree indeed.

Jerry

Learning disability. He is expecting 12 issues of HPR magazine this year as well.

Jerry

Hey Izzy, re rmr. And TRA/NAR zealots.

I told you so!

Liar.

Who was failing miserably.

Jerry

This should be in the FAQ.

Point.

Jerry

They were changed without a vote. Does that count?

Jerry