Estes Snapshot Flight Report

2 propellants

The 18mm RMS saga is in itself an interesting one.

This is the particular line Vern Estes himself railed against to keep metallic case motor products AND consumer handled propellants out of the hands of "general over the counter model rocketeers".

RMS motors were shipped for years before they received any DOT approvals.

RMS 18mm motors in particular were sold through mass-market hobby channels and you will find them on many hobby store shelves.

The certifications were conducted (by fiat and fraud - Rogers) by Tripoli. As such 18mm RMS were widely distributed:

1. With no DOT approvals
2. No valid certifications
3. Against the objection of Vern (the hobby's patriarch)
4. In violation of NFPA codes objecting to metallic parts
5. In violation of NFPA codes which had not yet been modified for reloads

The soap opera is intense.

Jerry

The site only shows currently certified motors so, your conclusion seems to be flawed.

So how come nobody accused them of "shipping explosives without proper classification"?

That didn't happen, which would seem to lead one to a certain skepticism regarding the claims made by the likes of Fred W and Ray D that what happened in your case was "merely an inherent consequence" of the shipment itself; such a view seems to disregard the fact that _somebody_ has to _decide_ to "get the ball rolling" in any given situation. (What about the Aerotech reloads sent out "plain box" parcel post by mainstream commercial dealers?)

-dave w

AT has ex numbers (real ones!!) and jerry/usr does not.

AT does not ship rocket motors as "model aircraft parts", but jerry does.

I guess it must have been intense. Was this the issue that got Cato all excited?

I'm glad this is all behind us.

Exactly. I can GUARANTEE that if any incident ever happens, both the plaintiff and the insurance company are going to subpoena ALL of the test data. If it ain't there, the TRA insurance is going to take a hike, and TRA is gonna be screwed. Makes you wonder why TRA mismanagement would put themselves in that position.

Part of John Cato's position was that this liability trail could eventually get back to HIM for what was done with his data after he eas removed.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I can accept mistakes. Even I've made a few. J Pat and Bunny made plenty. But they acknowledge them and fix them. They don't lie, hide the truth, and cover it up.

If we can still hold 10 year old allegations against Jerry Irvine, we can hold then against Chuck Rogers, Tom Blazanin, and TMT.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Could it be that to protect himself, John removed the data you keep talking about.

EVERY MOTOR ON THE TRA LIST has incomplete data for its certification. And that has been true since John Cato left TMT. And will remain true until TMT publishes delay data.

I don't think most people are interested in 19 year old stuff on any of those listed - including Jerry.

Quite possible. We get F21s and CTI motors show up regularly.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Until TMT publishes the results of the delay tests, I'm talking about EVERY MOTOR ON THE TMT LIST SINCE 1994.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Do NAR & CAR test all delays?

I missed the initial reference, then thought you were talking about our Canadian friend.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

WTF, I thought you were the conservative who demands that people be responsible, and be held accountable. BTW, the issue in question was not "the occasional mistake". But it is old news. Move on to something more current.

Alan

At NARAM-34, Chuck Rogers claimed that TRA TMT had tested and certified ALL

I'm not sure why, but at one point later on, someone did test ONE SINGLE D24-(10 IIRC). Based on that one test Tom Blazanin TMT certified ALL D24-10 motors. This one test was published in the 1996 TMT data book. I don't know when it finally dropped off the certified motor list.

That one D24 is the ONLY consumer reload that TMT EVER tested.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

True. Several (B6, some other ones) were NEVER certified by anyone. Others never sold that well. IIRC only the D13 and D24 remain. But I wish they kept the E27-4 for those models that needed just a bit more than the D24. And I'd really like to see a long burn low thrust load for this casing, around a D7 give or take a bit. Eiter BJ or end burn BT, whatever works.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!