ROL NEWS--Sky Ripper Motors Certified

Mindless? I'm not the one saying a guy with no significant production quantity trying to make a few bucks is overcharging.

If you don't like what people charge, go make it yourself.

That is unreasonable and WELL beyond any rule. Nothing stopping you from say telling customers to buy AT RMS grains (approved devices) or hybrid igniters from other sources. There is no law or rule that says a hybrid reload MUST come with an igniter.

Just Tripoli-speak.

Jerry

Using RMS grains, as igniters, would NOT be for their intended use, but you don't see a problem with that, do you?

Maybe they could just label the starter grains as "model aircraft parts", that would solve the problem, huh? It seems to be a favorite with you.

Actually it is.

AT specifically RECOMMENDS RMS grains for use in Rattworks hybrids.

Intended use provision fulfilled.

Now if only they would recommend delay modifications again.

Jerry

Yup, I was going to say that. Ratt motors are designed for use with pieces of AT 24mm reloads.

Pax

OK OK. How about lack of ATF and DOT(again minus igniters).

Man you got screwed.

By the way. Melting point of nylon is like 500 degrees or less right? Anybody ever test the use of sugar propellant pre-heater grains? That would save what, 4-5 bucks shot right there with a home made igniter? I don't understand why igniter kits with kclo4 and aluminum and/or magnesium powders are perfectly ok with tripoli, but you couldn't sell the hybrid reloads with instructions on how to make a simple preheater grain.

Pax

This is one of those areas that really needs to be addressed, but I think people in general are afraid to "discuss" anything lest the FEDs creep in and want to then regulate that too. Like you imply, we can make an igniterman triple fold igniter that looks more like a D motor and use that in any motor with a core big enough. Shouldn't we be able to light a hybrid the same way? Heck, the manufacturer could even supply a mold to make the right size preheater grain. The mold could be as simple as a one inch long chunk of plastic drinking straw.

"Don't ask, don't tell", gets to buggin' me at times.

steve

Totally baseless fear.

Tripoli is the problem not the Feds.

The exceptions kill the rule.

NARC = self-inflicted wound by bringing attention to YOUR activities.

Please explain?

Todd

Todd,

The people with more than half a brain know that there is no problem with these prices. Ignore them.

I believe that I could post a spreadsheet showing you the breakdown of costs and profits, and you'd still see nothing more than 'a few inches of plastic pipe'. That's fine with me. I don't think that 12 dollars for a certified J reload is 'so much'. Look at APCP 'baby J' motors; they are ~40 bucks. That's 28 to 30 dollars more for the 'government overhead', and I incur most of the same packaging, shipping and manufacturing costs that APCP manufacturers do when putting a reload kit together.

Todd

And materials and labor.

BS. CPVC is FAR lower cost per pound than APCP.

Oxidizer and GSE and labor cost is not factored into the reload cost.

Jerry

WHich one of the above do you consider to be a material? (ie packaging, shipping or manufacturing)

I guess I was "top posting" inline responses.

"Man you got screwed" was in reference to TRA telling you that you had to certify with and ship with pre-heater grains.

Pax

So, I just did a quick calculation of what it *costs* to get a single reload out the door for my PentaMax system. $12.18. That doesn't include "overhead" costs--just materials and labour, and it *does not* include amortized R&D expenses, or design expenses relating to NFPA compliance, or any of several other things one might reasonably say was a "cost input" to making these things.

Conventional business wisdom suggests that in order not to go broke, one needs to set an MSRP of 5 to 10 times the raw manufacturing cost for new products, or niche-market products--particularly if there are distributor hierarchies involved. Over time, as manufacturing is optimized, and volumes increase, the MSRP/cost ratio can shrink. Volumes in this market aren't going to increase drastically, which means that manufacturing optimization is likely to either not happen, or be quite minor.

The MSRP on my PentaMax reloads is $55.00. Which is somewhat less than the factor-of-five-to-10 that sound business judgement would suggest. Nobody ever accused small hobby rocketry manufacturers of having sound business judgement [or they wouldn't be doing this at all!].

point

Just let me know when you do! As a G hybrid reload, it works for me.

Len Bryan CAR S620 L3

I think Tripoli saying they must be certified and shippable with preheaters was a signifigant bonus to the end user. Having a 'complete' reload kit with preheaters, ignitors, and other consumables and having it mailable, well I fail to see the downside for the hybrid fan... Even if it was considerably more work up front for us.

Woody

Skyripper has no DOT or USPS approvals of their own.

Why doesn't TRA insist they be in "their name" as they did for USR?

Hmmm???

I fail to see the downside for the rocket fan to have USR product actually available.