USR vs Aerotech

we have no idea who you are, only that you are an anonymous poster accessing USEnet view prodigy from the Los Angeles area via a dialup line, and publishing an email address that provides no valid identification.

as such you have no credibiity whatsoever without verifiable cites

- iz

Dave Grayvis wrote:

Then that's the one!

Why are you fixated on my isp's name and it's location?

As such jerry has no credibiity whatsoever without verifiable cites.

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

NO person here knows who you are.

I for one am willing to verify your identity without disclosing it to the group without your specific permission. Contact me by email. I will then tell the group itself whether or not I have identified you and any other information you might find willing to be disclosed.

Correct. That's precisely why I use them. Plenty pf people here default to disbelief of Jerry largely as a result of the smear campaign your friends have been conducting for 10 years. No human is as bad as they make me out to be.

So I have won people over with verifiable citations of facts and actual actions. You seem very far from that threahold right now.

Jerry

identification.

Unfortunately, Jerry's response has giving him credibility.

Joel. phx

He absolutely appears in the complaint as a listed partner, in the summons as a witness, in the testimony both from him and about him. As a partner himself the suit applies to him as to any issues that refer generally to "partners" or "the company" or similar even if he was not named in the original complaint.

Too bad so sad, eh?

And since you are obviously fixated on Chuck in particular, answer me this?

1. What should the consequences be for a TRA member who represents and warrants motors are certified, and is in an official position to do so with that trust presumed, which later are discovered to NOT be certified, thus causing perhaps thousands of rocketeers (mostly non-members of either NAR or TRA) in several states to be violating state law due to the dependence on NFPA-1122 for legality in those states?

1. What should the consequences be for a TRA member who represents and warrants motors are property of an individual (Kosdon), and is in an official position to do so with that trust presumed, which later is discovered to NOT be the case after the motors are certified and listed as acceptable for sale to both members and non-members worldwide?

2a. And those motors have NONE of the trappings of any federal, state, or local legality whatsoever.

2b. And the rightful owner is standing there screaming at you to cease and desist, a person whom you have several fiducuiary duties to: i. As a partnerin a partnership ii. as party to an exclusive sales arrangement to the benefit of the screamer and against the Kosdon iii. As an official of the certifying authority iv. As a general member of the certifying authority club v. As an individual.

Just Jerry

This dime if dropped would involve 15 state DA's a Federal DA and about

25 charges in each individual jurisdiction.

That is not my goal, but it IS the risk. Does this convo continue with a troll, WITH ALL RISKS? Or does it convert to a disclosed person?

inconsistancy

Luuuuke, I'mmm youuuur Father

The little bits of 'troll' that people are complaining about are expanding the understanding of why one club might have it out for a manufacturer. But why does the other club have the same rule(s) that "everyone" hates?

That's fine. I'm happy they do.

Right, I believe it should be up to the state to allow insurance companies to refuse payment if you're in an accident, unfortunately everyone will still have to pay for the idiots. You can pay this tax through increased premiums or a seperate state tax which would show everyone how much those people cost.

THEY DON'T. The clubs do not say you cannot manufacture motors. If you live in a state that has adopted 1125, a manufacturer must conform to the law that says they follow 1125. If you're a manufacturer in one of those states, write your representatives or move production to a different state (I would not suggest CA). If not, you're free to make motors to the limits of your state and local laws.

There is a big difference between manufacturing and marketing. Sitting on pallets of motors for 10 years shows no marketing skills. And not to say that as a dig, good technical people often lack people skills. Had cheap non-certified motors been marketed as the auction motors skyrocketed, people would have signed up for a third club in droves.

They are A (or 2) AHJ. There is nothing (posted to date) that I have seen that says you can't create your own AHJ.

Clearly we disagree. The FAA should only care that the airplane tests out, not all the sub-components and processes? Verifying the process behind the product helps ensure the quality is built in and verified by tested motors and will exist for future batches.

1125 and/or simular laws exist in many states. Any certifying organization will have to deal with all state laws reguarding motor manufacturer and determine what their "certification" means. If all you were verifing was 1 motor performed in spec, I'd wager the state(s) not recognize you as an AHJ. At what point that swings the other way, I do not know. Create a testing 'lab' which performs motor certifications (verifying 1125 at the least) and if the existing clubs refuse the motors, get them on the shelves next to existing motors at 1/2 the cost. You'll have people demanding they be allowed to join your club.

Maybe they could build a facitility to manufacture motors and invite anyone to come in. Then each batch could be tested at the door as the """manufacturer""" leaves and place a 'certified' sticker on the batch?

Does that not help clarify why there would be an issue with that particular vendor?

You can't say "it's not our problem" when the magazine is right there on the club application. I don't blame organizations for the actions of members, but I do blame them when no action is taken.

Joel. phx

my point is that these verifiable facts (all that are available to us) do not establish your credibility

so provide some that do

(but the LA location does help eliminate some candidates)

- iz

TRA/NAR do to the extent that their participation on the NFPA commitee influences the content of NFPA 1125

NFPA 1125 defines AHJ in ambiguous terms, and admits that even an insurance inspector or landowner may be an AHJ.

however, AHK's are like onions, and the question is which AHJ has overriding jurisdiction. Generally speaking, the SFM is the overriding AHJ and counties, cities and townships may either impose regulations that are more strict, or may grant specific variances.

although I may own 10 acres of property in New York City, and have a sympathetic insurance inspector willing to provide a policy on the basis of be acting as an AHJ (in selecting a motor or user certification organization), it is ineffective if the NYS SFM, or NYC Fire Marshall successfully claims overidding authority.

this is why I made the statement that TRA/NAR have a stranglehold on the industry. If their support on the NFPA Pyrotechnics Committee is required for that committee to recognize a new AHJ as one empowered by NFPA codes (and therefore state law in adoptive states), then would-be AHJ's do not have a snowballs chance in hell.

agreed

- iz

1 Tim Collins

2 Fred Brennon

3 ?

Gonna give up that easy?

So what's stopping ARSA or any other organization with an opposing viewpoint from getting a seat on the NFPA?

I would say the "prime" AHJ is the local fire official.

ALL the laws center around making his job easier yet NO local fire officials are on the NFPA committee, not even the ones who live with USR OEMs, AMW, CTI, etc.

There ARE Canadian orgs on the NFPA committee BTW.

Jerry

So Post the lawsuit with Chuck Rogers named as a litigant.

If I Tell You My name will everything I say be taken for absolute fact?

troll:

Well?

I won't "out" you on rmr, but you better disclose who you are to me. And I ought to be very convinced.

I am waiting troll.

Jerry

"What, you mean you haven't noticed that there's now such a tangled morass of Federal, state, and local laws that you can be arrested for practically anything if someone wants you? Land of the Free has become Land of the Fee - legal type, that is. The fact that this is still the best place on Earth to live just makes me depressed..."

- Donald Qualls, man of insight

Jerry, Post your citable proof.