We finally joined NAR

Randy,
If there is any way to make it to the SEARS launch next weekend (7th), you should try to make it. The Tour de Deuce is going to be launching from there along with a mass launching of Deuce's Wild! kits. If you aren't aware of the Tour de Deuce or the Deuce's Wild!, you can find out more at:
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It's going to be a hoot, with the two founders of the Tour at the launch.
Anyone else in the area are strongly encouraged to stop by. It's going to be a lot of fun! :)
jim
Randy wrote:
Reply to
jflis (FlisKits)
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I agree, and in fact, he's part of the reason I decided to rejoin NAR.
Reply to
RayDunakin
Fair question.
Not much. Not for lack of trying either. Because I am "blackballed". Look it up.
However just outside of "the industry" (of 2000 zealots) I am hosting a launch with a 20 mile clearance and with unlimited rocket styles. So I am not useless. :)
Oh, that launch is within commuting distance from the largest population center on the planet.
How can I "get permission"? :)
Just Jerry
from another list:
Founder of amrocnet.net (arocket superceeded it and thank goodness!) Founder of U.S. Rockets Founder of California Rocketry Publishing Founder of Summerfest (the largest attendance rocket launch ever held) Founder of the action committee for LMR and HPR itself
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
What, exactly, gives you the chills? The fact that I believe Bunny more than the Wizard of Iz, or the fact that I would lend more credence to publicly posted information from a business/institution/organization leader than I would to the opinion of a person who has stated issues with that organization?
If there's a trust issue with the sport rocket industry in general that I am unaware of, then, yes, we are doomed. Especially since I could no longer trust you, for instance.
(I hope you were referring to the TLA organizations and NOT the sport rocket industry as a whole in your opening paragraph.)
Please re-read my post and consider that I actually thought about what I wrote, and notice that there are several qualifications within it. A cynical nature prevents me from taking most things at face value. I don't just blindly accept information as fact, but I certainly do consider the source in assigning RELATIVE credibility to information.
Honestly, and as I've stated before, I think our problems are simply symptoms of a larger disease. Its not just the NAR or the TRA. Its a litigious society. Its the burst economic bubble. Its Congress. Its terrorism. Its many, many things, IMHO. People are expecting very small non-profit hobby organizations to protect them from the ravages of a disease which has infected the entire society.
For instance, NFPA. The very concept is abhorrent to me. I am actually at a loss for a strong enough word to describe my feelings towards it right now. The symptom is NFPA 1125 or 1127 or XXXX. The actual disease is something else, something which has granted a commercial insurance advisory panel the power to, essentially, write law. Something which makes buying our laws from a business okay. Something which is allowing BATFE and the government to enforce their will upon the People, instead of the other way around. Whatever that something is, it is not all NAR/TRA.
In fact, we are probably fortunate to have modroc regulations in the NFPA codes at all, no matter how inane they might be. We are, at least, in there. It shouldn't take much effort for anyone here to imagine rocketry being completely outlawed. Anyone here think that a positive PAD ruling on the lawsuit will end our problems? Being cynical, I don't. "Shumerburg-843; A Bill to re-define PAD to prevent access to explosive rocket materials by terrorists."
I don't want to comment on your particular issues with the orgs, Jerry, but I think the TLA's are actually doing what they can in the face of problems, issues, and realities that most of us are unaware of. Even if they have not done the best job possible, the absolute LAST thing we need right now (notice; right now) is to diminish their ability to effect change at the regulatory level.
I wish I had a plan to fight the "real disease" I talk about. I don't. All I really know is that the allegations and assertions flying around here will continue, as they have for a long, long time already, because all the problems are not here in rocketry.
I hate to just gripe. How about some paid, full-time positions in the orgs to address these issues? Maybe our needs are exceeding the resources that volunteers can provide. I'd kick in some extra dues for that. Hire a firm to analyze the trend data and identify contributing factors? Something. Anything.
Reply to
Gary
jerry, The exemption you speak of is federal, it does not effect state law at all.
Reply to
Dave Grayvis
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote in message
Yep....and carries more weight.
Kooch
Reply to
Kevin Kuczek
Mexico City, or would you actualy go off the North American Continent?
If only you had proposed L0 and L00 user certification. ;)
Reply to
Alan Jones
Cool. Is that the MTA?
Jerry, the 'fest launches were great, and were certainly some of the biggest at the time. But none that I attended ever were THAT big. LDRS XX in 2001 was much, much bigger than any of the old 'fest launches.
Hmm, what committee was that? Was that a NAR thing?
Reply to
RayDunakin
Calcutta?
David Erbas-White
Reply to
David Erbas-White
Your credibility just went to zero. NFPA codes are spearheaded by TRA/NAR and their "friends" (Estes, Quest, Aerotech).
THEY brought this on.
I do.
Yes they are and if you cannot see that and you want to blame the problems on stock markets, wars, etc, I cannot fix you.
Massive drivel snipped.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
If you are talking LDRS Lucerne it did not have 3000 people.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
You counted heads did you?
Reply to
Dave Grayvis
I was there, were you?
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Then tell me, did you count heads?
Reply to
Dave Grayvis
(referring to ATF) >
Not when they refuse to obey it.
An exemption from ATF regs is irrelevant to the state fire code regs.
Yes, due to many factors such as economy and misinformation about the HSA.
In what way?? The cert process hasn't changed and is not difficult to begin with.
In a practical sense, there never really were that many choices. Many of the manufacturers who were once listed as having certified motors were very small outfits with extremely limited distribution. Some that I remember seeing listed, I never saw advertised or heard of anyone ever actually selling/buying/flying them. Also, not all of these long-gone companies were in business at the same time.
Prior to motor certs, the situation was about the same but with a greater degree of uncertainty.
Reply to
RayDunakin
Which one of the Summerfest launches had that many??
Reply to
RayDunakin
Yep, I finished my Deuce's Wild last week and I'm waiting for the weather to cooperate so I can paint it.
The "Tour de Deuce Drag Race" should be a blast.
I also downloaded the free paper rocket from the Flis kit site. It has a paint scheme for the Tour de Deuce, looks nice, and is ready to fly.
John
Reply to
John Stein
There were "big" launches three times a year from 1985-1992. You were NOT at each of them.
I did not keep any record of the attendance in any exact form (becvauseI did not charge fees!), only photos of the "lack of parking on a DRY LAKE". But from 1990-1992 there were three launches (weather drove the time of year) that were "well over 3000". There was one launch where a variety of things came together and we had "over" 4000.
I had a designated person at each launch to "estimate" the size of the crowd. This information was sadly not well documented. Just as the FAA compliance manager Charles E Rogers intentionally destroyed any copies of records in his posession so he could make the claim later I "never" filed for FAA waivers.
I do know this. The attendance was huge and thanks to a successful misfire alley set-up (thanks G Harry!) the launch rate was "hectic" and also "safe".
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Let me know when they start so I can file a civil rights suit.
Lie.
You lived in CA. This country is a 49 state country legally for rockets.
The real centers of HPR variety were OH, MI, TX, FL. Why do you think LDRS-1 was in Medina, OH of all places?
I am an authoritative source of information as I am the guy who popularized G motors by offering them as a dealer nationwide to all buyers (legally).
And as for the BS comments I snipped, they are blatently apologetic for the BAD actions that replaced good actions on the part of associations.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
Jerry, show us these photos of the lack of parking and tell us HOW you determined there were "well over 3000". Which launch had "over" 4000? What "variety of things" are you referring to?
Who did you designate to do this? How much did you pay him/her?
"FAA compliance officer"? You imagination seems to be working overtime.
Chuck Rogers NEVER had anything to do with waivers for "YOUR" launches, So your claim that he destroyed copies of waivers is just more pathological BULL****!
Again, How do you know this? Who counted heads?
Reply to
Dave Grayvis

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