Restarting an Unused HO Engine

Ray Haddad wrote:

No, Ray. To some people it has a very narrow meaning; to others, it has a very broad meaning. They are no more or less wrong than you are.
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Denaturing is denaturing. End of story. -- Ray
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On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:32:46 +0800, Ray Haddad wrote, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME:

There's a joke about Alzheimer's: you only need one book. Ray evidently has only one rebuttal, a semantic twitch that chundered up from the depths of Western Oz.
--
Steve

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On 8/20/2009 10:58 AM Steve Caple spake thus:

So for him, it *is* true, and becomes truer by repeating the assertion. Interesting.
By the way, it seems Ray recently disavowed being an Aussie, even though he lives there, so he must be a man with no country. How sad for him.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:11:51 -0700, David Nebenzahl

Oh, the irony of it all. You continue to repeat your denial of a fact and then use that on me. What a joke you have become.
And then to stoop into a nationality issue as if that wins the discussion. Not only are you a joke, but you are a dope. Good one, David. You keep up with that. -- Ray
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On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Steve Caple

A fact is a fact. You want a different rebuttal? Change the subject. You can't win this one, Steve, but nice try. -- Ray
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On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:32:46 +0800, Ray Haddad wrote:

You are wrong.
--
Groet, salut, Wim.

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wrote:

LOL
English not your first language then? -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

[...]
No, it ain't. That's the problem.
What is it with you guys that you can't accept that words have different meanings in different parts of the English speaking world? So you use "denatured" to mean "other than its pure state". So what does that prove? It certainly doesn;t prove that "both are denatured." It only proves that Ozzies would call both denatured. Which is OK by me, if that's the way you want it. But if you want to be understood by people who use the words differently, you have to explain what you mean.
BTW a_a_a, all commercially available wine is denatured by your Ozzie definition. It's all mixed with water to bring it to some standard percentage of ethanol, as decided by the vintner. That's because of trade laws that require labelling of alcohol (ethanol) content, and regulations that allow little variation from what's stated on the label. I don't know about your legalities, but here tax on alcoholic beverages is tied to the alcohol content.
cheers, wolf k.
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wrote:

Wolf, I got my education in the USA and denaturing is denaturing. Why can't you accept that? The words are even spelled alike. See that?
DENATURING = DENATURING worldwide. -- Ray
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Thanks for that, Ray.
It's right up there with your "My posts are always nice" comment from a few weeks ago.
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No, I didn't, and no, you weren't. You had Isopropal and Ethyl confused, apparently not knowing that *both* can be referred to as "rubbing alcohol". So when David quite correctly advised using denatured instead of common rubbing alcohol for cleaning wheels, you replied "they are the same".
They aren't.
"Denatured" can *only* refer to Ethyl, as Isopropal is never denatured, so David's reply was correct and your feeble attempt at correcting something that was already correct to begin with was not only wrong but made you look the fool.

Right. I've said it before and I'll say it again: arrogance and stupidity make a poor combination.
P.S.: Had to pick up some meds today, so I made a point of checking the shelves in the pharmacy. As you'd expect, they carry both denatured (ethyl) and isopropal alcohols, but only the isopropal is labeled "rubbing alcohol": the ethyl alcohol was all clearly labeled "Denatured (Ethyl) Alcohol", with nothing about rubbing alcohol on the label at all.
When I queried the pharmacist as to why this was, he said "They can both be used for rubbing alcohols, but if you label them the same it's too easy for people to confuse them". Would you care to try telling us that the pharmacist was wrong and that only Ray Haddad is right?
Sheesh.
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Twibil wrote:

No, twibil, this is the one aspect in which Ray is arguably correct in respect of outside the USA. For instance the commonest form of isopropyl in Australia is stuff called Isocol which is only 64% isopropyl. They even advertise it for cleaning track http://www.isocol.com.au/general.htm
Given that he was 99% astray, give Ray the 1% credit he deserves.
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I'm not trying to be impolite, but attend closely:
(A) The word "denatured" in this context means "rendered unfit to drink". Here's the online definition from Webster's:
"denature (d-nchr) tr.v. denatured, denaturing, denatures 1. To change the nature or natural qualities of. 2. To render unfit to eat or drink without destroying usefulness in other applications, especially to add methanol to (ethyl alcohol)."
(B) Isopropal alcohol is unfit to drink by it's very nature: it's poisonous before you add anything else to it. Therefore you cannot "denature" it. (You can certainly mix other things into isopropal alcohol, and that's done all the time, but doing so does not "denature" it.)

(C) As mentioned above, diluting isopropal alcohol is the rule rather than the exception; but just mixing isopropal with other things does not mean that you're "denaturing" it by doing so.

Alas, the ad fails to tell us what the other 36% of the stuff consists of, so its no help.

Had he deserved it, I would have.
He didn't.
~Pete
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On 8/19/2009 8:45 PM Twibil spake thus:

Isopropyl.
Continue.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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David Nebenzahl wrote:

But David, twibil is even more perfect than Ray, so how can he err?
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Shrug.
Now you're just trying to be a prick.
And succeeding.
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Twibil wrote:

You are quoting an American dictionary. Others do not have the same definition, eg definition 2 above does not even get a mention in the Concise Oxford in front of me now. Are you saying that Ray is only allowed to use an American dictionary? And are you saying that he is only allowed to use definition 2 above because it suits your argument, when he can equally well use definition 1 to suit his argument?
Or are you saying that because the discussion started in an American context, Ray must keep it there for evermore?
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On 8/19/2009 9:20 PM a_a_a spake thus:

So, assuming you're in the UK, what is the meaning of the term "denatured" there? What is isopropyl alcohol called, vs. the other stuff (I believe y'all call that stuff "methylated spirits", yes?).
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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wrote:

One supposes that Ray would have brought this up himself, were he remotely aware of it. ;)

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