Restarting an Unused HO Engine

No, I didn't, and no, you weren't. You had Isopropal and Ethyl confused, apparently not knowing that *both* can be referred to as "rubbing alcohol". So when David quite correctly advised using denatured instead of common rubbing alcohol for cleaning wheels, you replied "they are the same".
They aren't.
"Denatured" can *only* refer to Ethyl, as Isopropal is never denatured, so David's reply was correct and your feeble attempt at correcting something that was already correct to begin with was not only wrong but made you look the fool.
Right. I've said it before and I'll say it again: arrogance and stupidity make a poor combination.
P.S.: Had to pick up some meds today, so I made a point of checking the shelves in the pharmacy. As you'd expect, they carry both denatured (ethyl) and isopropal alcohols, but only the isopropal is labeled "rubbing alcohol": the ethyl alcohol was all clearly labeled "Denatured (Ethyl) Alcohol", with nothing about rubbing alcohol on the label at all.
When I queried the pharmacist as to why this was, he said "They can both be used for rubbing alcohols, but if you label them the same it's too easy for people to confuse them". Would you care to try telling us that the pharmacist was wrong and that only Ray Haddad is right?
Sheesh.
Reply to
Twibil
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Wrong.
Again. (And again, and again, and again, and.....)
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"Question - what is the difference between denatured alcohol and rubbing alcohol? ------------------------------------------------ Denatured alcohol is ethanol to which poisonous and foul-tasting chamicals have been added to make it unfit for drinking. There is more than one recipe for denaturing alcohol; some add methanol or isopropanol, some gasoline, and so on.
Rubbing alcohol is an alcohol intended to be rubbed on the skin. Frequently 70% iso-propyl alcohol / 30% water is used; sometimes ethanol with added iso-propyl alcohol is used. You don't want to use denatured alcohol that is made with anything that shouldn't be placed on the skin, such as gasoline!
So, some, but not all, kinds of denatured alcohol can be used as rubbing alcohol. Rubbing alcohol may also not contain any ethanol at all, which would disqualify it from being "denatured". So, some but not all kinds of rubbing alcohol are denatured alcohol, and some but not all kinds of denatured alcohol can be rubbing alcohol.
Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D. Assistant Director PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois"
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What a great fool you are, Ray.
Reply to
Twibil
No, twibil, this is the one aspect in which Ray is arguably correct in respect of outside the USA. For instance the commonest form of isopropyl in Australia is stuff called Isocol which is only 64% isopropyl. They even advertise it for cleaning track
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Given that he was 99% astray, give Ray the 1% credit he deserves.
Reply to
a_a_a
I'm not trying to be impolite, but attend closely:
(A) The word "denatured" in this context means "rendered unfit to drink". Here's the online definition from Webster's:
"de=B7na=B7ture (d-nchr) tr.v. de=B7na=B7tured, de=B7na=B7tur=B7ing, de=B7na=B7tures 1. To change the nature or natural qualities of. 2. To render unfit to eat or drink without destroying usefulness in other applications, especially to add methanol to (ethyl alcohol)."
(B) Isopropal alcohol is unfit to drink by it's very nature: it's poisonous before you add anything else to it. Therefore you cannot "denature" it. (You can certainly mix other things into isopropal alcohol, and that's done all the time, but doing so does not "denature" it.)
(C) As mentioned above, diluting isopropal alcohol is the rule rather than the exception; but just mixing isopropal with other things does not mean that you're "denaturing" it by doing so.
Alas, the ad fails to tell us what the other 36% of the stuff consists of, so its no help.
Had he deserved it, I would have.
He didn't.
~Pete
Reply to
Twibil
You are quoting an American dictionary. Others do not have the same definition, eg definition 2 above does not even get a mention in the Concise Oxford in front of me now. Are you saying that Ray is only allowed to use an American dictionary? And are you saying that he is only allowed to use definition 2 above because it suits your argument, when he can equally well use definition 1 to suit his argument?
Or are you saying that because the discussion started in an American context, Ray must keep it there for evermore?
Reply to
a_a_a
On 8/19/2009 9:20 PM a_a_a spake thus:
So, assuming you're in the UK, what is the meaning of the term "denatured" there? What is isopropyl alcohol called, vs. the other stuff (I believe y'all call that stuff "methylated spirits", yes?).
Reply to
David Nebenzahl
One supposes that Ray would have brought this up himself, were he remotely aware of it. ;)
Reply to
LD
And all I am saying is that both are denatured. Simple. Any attempt to add other arguments is just proving me more and more correct.
His argument has changed. Both have been denatured yet he now makes allowances that they are denatured differently. It's not "CALLED" denatured, is his new argument. But, the fact remains that they are both denatured and always have been. -- Ray
Reply to
Ray Haddad
On 8/19/2009 11:31 PM Ray Haddad spake thus:
So tell us how, exactly, isopropyl alcohol (known in North America as rubbing alcohol) is denatured. Keep in mind that this word means that the substance was changed in some way from its "natural" state (e.g., adding methanol to ethyl alcohol to make denatured alcohol).
We're waiting.
Reply to
David Nebenzahl
Isocol, as referred to elsewhere as the commonest Australian analogue of your rubbing alcohol, is 'denatured' in Ray's sense by being only 64% isopropyl and therefore 36% something else; whatever that something else may be, the stuff is not pure isopropyl, and is therefore denatured in a legitimate Australian-usage sense of that word.
Denatured here, in this usage, simply means artificially rendered impure, or as one dictionary defines it, 'adulterated'.
Ray is right in respect in respect of common, although not the only, Australian usage.
Reply to
a_a_a
I am quoting a dictionary of the English language, and we are both using that same language right now. Other than the occasional quaint term such as "tossing a wowser", the meanings of most words are identical in both the US and Oz. Were it otherwise, you would not feel insulted when I state that you're a throughgoing bonehead.
And you are very carefully failing to quote what it *does* say about the word "denatured"; if anything.
Let's see: the OP is presumably from the US, David answered his question correctly using US terminology (assuming there *is* any difference in terminology, which you have yet to demonstrate), and you think starting an argument about possible overseas definitions has any relevance to *anything*!?
If you're going to answer a question from the US in terms that aren't used in the US, all you're doing is muddying the water; not proving how cool you are, or even providing useful information.
Now that's just plain dumb.
Definition #2 is the one that specifically applies to the denaturing of alcohol -it says so right there- and that's the subject at hand, so *of course* it's the one that applies. (The words "especially to add methanol to (ethyl alcohol)." should have been your clue.)
(A) You have still not demonstrated that the word "denatured" applies to the treatment of Ethyl alcohol only in the US. (Lack of evidence is not evidence.)
(B) You only have to use the relevant definitions if you intend to provide relevant information. Heck, if you just want to demonstrate that trolls exist everywhere, you're perfectly free to post your answers in Swahili.
But don't expect anyone to bother with translating.
Reply to
Twibil
Thanks for that, Ray.
It's right up there with your "My posts are always nice" comment from a few weeks ago.
Reply to
Twibil
On 8/19/2009 11:50 PM a_a_a spake thus:
You're right about it being x% something else besides isopropyl; however, that "something else" is probably water. (Couldn't check the MSDS on that site because it goes to the same link as "contact us".) But that's what our rubbing alcohol is: isopropyl + water.
But I think you're just wrong about the denatured part of it. Since isopropyl alcohol is already toxic and not something people would drink to get drunk, there's no *need* to denature it as there is with ethanol, so I don't see what you're getting at here.
But it's not being rendered anything; it's simply diluted (again, probably with water). Which ain't the same thing as denaturing.
Reply to
David Nebenzahl

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