Restarting an Unused HO Engine

wrote:


When someone says "that's not what the word means" when the context is clear, or when you have explained the sense it is being used, they are arguing for the sake of it and have already lost.
Because it means they understand what you are trying to communicate. At which point it is unclear why they are arguing.
Many controversial newsgroups including leading edge scientific ones which shouldn't be, see too much of this.
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On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:20:33 -0400, Christopher A. Lee

It's a means of attempting to manipulate an outcome. The words denaturing or denatured have clear meaning to most people. -- Ray
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wrote:

Wolf, the fact is that nearly all "off the shelf" alcohols are denatured by law. At one time you had to have a prescription to buy the pure stuff. Any way that you look at it, denaturing has only one definition. Just because there is more than one way to denature alcohol is a spurious argument. It does nothing more than attempt to change the goalposts so my detractors can feel they've somehow won something. It's a game I don't play. Words do have meaning. We sort of agreed on that when we adopted the use of a dictionary. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

True, in the technical sense. But that's not how most people understand and use the word.

No, it doesn't. That's what you can't get through your head. The "definition" of a word is simply what people mean by it. That's all.

You miss the point. For most people it's irrelevant - all they care about is getting the stuff they paid for. So they use a technical term in a non-technical sense - happens all the time. So what?

You are too focussed on winning an argument, instead of clarifying what's being said. You're quite right that "denature" as a generic technical term refers any one of a variety of ways of making ethanol and other alcohols etc unpalatable, noxious, noisome, disgusting odoriferous, ... take your pick.
But by the second or third post it was clear that people were using the term to refer to ethanol + methanol (+ other things, depending). Yet you persisted in claiming that "denatured alcohol" could/should not refer only to this one type of denatured alcohol. Which is a nonsensical claim, since people not only could, but did, so use it. Without confusion, I might add.
HTH wolf k.
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wrote:

And they were incorrect but desperately trying to win a point. Their argument was irrelevant. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

No, they were not incorrect. That's the way the term is used by most people in everyday life, in some parts of the world, eg, when buying the stuff at a hardware store. Maybe not in your part of the world, but so what?
And they weren't trying to win a point. They were explaining what they meant.
That's what you can't (or won't) accept: Different people, different contexts, different countries, different situations -- all these affect how people use words.
That is a fact of the way language works. Or, if you prefer, of the way people use language.
Live with it.
Or expect repeated run-ins with people who use words differently than you do. Most of those people are not as patient as I am.
Now I intend to sip a single malt while watching Inspector Lewis solve a dastardly crime.
G'night.
wolf k.
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wrote:

I've lived all but the last 10 years in America. Denatured alcohol does not have two meanings. End of story. Now go ahead and get cross with me if you wish. -- Ray
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Wrong.
Again. (And again, and again, and again, and.....)
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00102.htm
"Question - what is the difference between denatured alcohol and rubbing alcohol? ------------------------------------------------ Denatured alcohol is ethanol to which poisonous and foul-tasting chamicals have been added to make it unfit for drinking. There is more than one recipe for denaturing alcohol; some add methanol or isopropanol, some gasoline, and so on.
Rubbing alcohol is an alcohol intended to be rubbed on the skin. Frequently 70% iso-propyl alcohol / 30% water is used; sometimes ethanol with added iso-propyl alcohol is used. You don't want to use denatured alcohol that is made with anything that shouldn't be placed on the skin, such as gasoline!
So, some, but not all, kinds of denatured alcohol can be used as rubbing alcohol. Rubbing alcohol may also not contain any ethanol at all, which would disqualify it from being "denatured". So, some but not all kinds of rubbing alcohol are denatured alcohol, and some but not all kinds of denatured alcohol can be rubbing alcohol.
Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D. Assistant Director PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What a great fool you are, Ray.
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On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:01:36 -0700 (PDT), Twibil

They are both denatured. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote: [...]

I have no idea of what you mean by "denatured."
But it is amusing to see you repeat yourself. Reminds me of the Monty Python argument sketch. Except that the Monty Python sketchis actually witty.
cheers, wolf k.
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wrote:

As opposed to your reply. Both types of alcohol under discussion are denatured. End of story. Repetition may be necessary for the blockheads who believe they can nuance their way into being right. -- Ray
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On 8/19/2009 6:49 AM Wolf K spake thus:

>

Well, I'm going to be forgiving here and let Ray go on believing that denatured and rubbing alcohols are one and the same. After all, if he confuses the two and rubs some denatured alcohol on his skin, there's just a chance of an adverse reaction which might just shut him up, at least for a little while:
POISON! DANGER! VAPOR HARMFUL. MAY BE FATAL OR CAUSE BLINDNESS IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CANNOT BE MADE NONPOISONOUS. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM AND LIVER.
(from the MSDS for methyl alcohol, http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M2015.htm )
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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On 8/17/2009 12:41 PM W. eWatson spake thus:

Forgot to say, for the truck assemblies, a little grease would be a better lubricant than oil. Any grease is fine (I use a general-purpose white lithium grease). Again, just a little goes a long way. A toothpick is your friend here.
The truck assemblies are very easy to open up: they just snap apart and snap back together, using the plastic retaining clips.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

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