Not a lawyer but not sure if thats strictly true. Is it not more of a case of how they become a monopoly and how they subsequently use that position. Enough companies have made themselves unviable.
Cheers, Simon
That may have been because there was a *real need* for a loco-driven 9F?
(kim)
"simon" wrote
It's all about supply & demand Simon. If there's too much of anything readily available in the market place then it's value drops. The Scots are a classic case in point - people are off-loading the older rebuilt Scots from Mainline, Airfix & Bachmann because they've bought the newer one from Hornby. The clever people off-loaded the old model before the new one was released.
John.
If thats tongue in cheek then I'm smiling, if not then would love to see an explanation ?
cheers, Simon
True, but are 2nd Hornby prices depressed cos too many or are they correct cos enough vs bachmann artificially high due to poor supply...
cheers, Simon
Few people were happy with the tender drive arrangement. Hornby ignored continual pleas to upgrade the mechanism. I doubt very much they'd be doing it now if it wasn't for the competition from Bachmann.
(kim)
"simon" wrote
My gut feeling is that there is FAR too much Hornby product in the market place and consequently supply exceeds demand. Shops have to drop their 'new' prices to attract purchasers and consequently 'used' prices are tumbling.
This is of course good news in the short-term for modellers, but in the long term it could have any number of negative aspects. After all who would buy a new car if you new it's resale value was going to be only a fraction of what you'd paid for it. I'm not saying that analogy is directly replicated in the model field, but there are similarities.
It's interesting that in the past when Hornby have gone all out for growth that they've over-supplied the market and got into difficulties. I seem similarities in the present market.
John.
When the market became over-saturated in the 1960's, it was only the biggest company which survived (Triang). My guess is that Hornby are gambling on the same thing happening again.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
The main difference now, I suspect, is that the owner of Bachmann Europe is infinitely more wealthy than Hornby plc. Bachmann also appear to be rather more innovative in my opinion.
John.
And Bachmann have sell internationally, where there is a substantial possible UK outline market. I am not the only guy with a soft spot for GWR green and LMS maroon. ;-) But in the past the Hornby (Triang) models were such execrable pieces of junk that I'm suspicious of anything they produce. And in that I'm not the only guy, either.
NB that Bachmann had a reputation as "Botchman", which it is slowly overcoming by offering excellent locomotives in the Spectrum line, etc. But it's an uphill climb for them.
HTH
"Wolf K." wrote
I hate to think what our north American friends would call Tri-ang/Hornby past efforts!
John.
They were at the same level as the older Bachmann, Model Power etc. There was only one manufacturer of machanisms in that price bracket that was any good, Athearn - and their bodies left a lot to be desired.
But the UK was probably the least profitable market in the UK already. Any further erosion of their margins and Bachmann Europe wouldn't necessarily be sorry to see the back of it. With the sheer number of models available now or announced for the near future I doubt anyone is making any profit from them.
(kim)
I doubt if anyone could make money from selling UK outline overseas without having a substantial "home market" in the UK as well.
(kim)
"kim" wrote
I should imagine that the UK market represents 90% of Bachmann Europe's operation, with little more than Liliput in Austria/Germany to count. It's not so long ago (with the weak US$) that the UK operation was the most profitable part of Bachmann's worldwide operation.
Unlike Hornby, the vast majority of Bachmann's work is done in house, and even Dapol have shown that tooling costs for models need not be astronomical with short-life tooling methods. I'm not suggesting that Bachmann use such technology, but the option is there.
My guess is that Hornby are flooding the market with product not to try and eliminate Bachmann's presence (although they would undoubtedly prefer them not to be there) but in an attempt to keep pushing turnover (and potentially profit) mainly to keep their shareholders happy.
John.
Maybe so, but such a market would provide additional profit at little additional cost. If you offer the requisite quality, that is.
I note that Hornby is advertising Rivarossi 60ft baggage cars and coaches. They have metal RP-25 wheels and knuckle couplers, and full interiors. But it looks like the bodies and interiors are the original Rivarossi moldings, which were very good for their day, but have been superseded. The list price of $34.95 therefore strikes me as a little high. The competition is Walthers, who offer full length (80ft) cars at $44.95, with separate handrails, better underbody detail, and multi-coloured interiors. Rapido trains offers even more detail and interior lighting (battery powered LEDs with a reed switch) for about $60. Tough competition IMO.
HTH
There would be a bigger overseas market for UK outline models if they were HO scale and N 160!
Greg.P.
Dunno, they were already well on their way through the list of models that needed conversion from tender drive.
But my point was that Bachmann were applauded for taking on the 9F but Hornby slated for the scot and standard 4 when they too were due for upgrade from split chassis loco and fairly old bodies. But dont tell me Bachmann have announced these would be upgraded, theyre still churning out split chassis locos.
cheers, Simon
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