Jerry is now on my banned senders list

Yes, but not on as regular a basis, particularly in recent years. Canada is now the world's largest ice wine producer. Inniskillin's 1989 Vidal ice wine won the Grand Prix d?Honneur at Vinexpo.

There are (or were 20 years ago) vineyards in Southern England. There was one at Leeds Castle and another on the Isle of White I visited. Growing the Muller Thurgau I seem to remember. The wine was light and refreshing.

It would be a financial Musical Chairs. Many people would lend money knowing they Might not get it back. Many people do that right now. All of the credit card build a certain level of loss into their interest rates and all they would have to do is modify their calculations. The stock market and roulette wheel are other examples of people 'investing' while knowing they might not get all or any of their investment back.

FTMP, the oldest observations only go back 150 years. The rest is extrapolated from tree rings and so on.

Ever heard of the dinosaurs? They were quite popular once...

Facile, I know, but the worst-case of believing the doomsayers is we save energy, the worst-case of believing the energy lobby is we die. Guy

I think you'll find it's rather the other way round. Third-world debt is down to first-world profiteers, usually either arms manufacturers or pharmaceutical giants. Guy

If we last as long as the dinosaurs (millions and millions of years) then we would be doing well.

But risk analysis isnt just about choosing the worst case - unless advertising insurance perhaps.

Cheers, Simon

The conclusion that "we die" is extremely facile. What we do is Adapt. As we have done for about 8,000,000 years, during which time the climate was constantly changing. Adapting normally produces quantum leaps in innovation. Putting on cardigans and turning down the heat are hardly innovative.

I know that, and my friend John Adams (who is a world expert on risk) is more sceptical than I am. Guy

A nice idea, but the rate of change is currently well in excess of the potential for species adaptation. Evolutionary theory does not really support the idea of significant adaptations in a handful of generations. Guy

"Paul Boyd" wrote

And British banks; but of course it does get recouped, from increased charges on the rest of us.

I understand that there was some deliberacy in the American banks lending to the sub-prime market. They anticipated a fairly significant default rate but expected to profit from the sale of reposessed property in an ever-increasing value market.

John.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote

I'm talking about the money the Third World is demanding to 'go green'. The only 'go' will be into the pockets of many of those countries leaders.

John.

"MartinS" wrote

Yorkshire Tea is blended in Yorkshire by Taylor's of Harrogate. I've no idea where the individual tea leaves are grown, but probably Sri Lanka or India.

John.

The third world is where we export our problems. I know India is not third world, but Bhopal was a great example of how we do this. Guy

Governments always want to increase taxation, it's what they do. It's their power. That doesn't mean reducing energy consumption and emissions is bad, though. Guy

"Christopher A. Lee" wrote

There was also reports a few years ago of a small grape growing operation in the East Midlands around Leicester, but I believe these are hardy varieties. I was meaning the growth of vines normally associated with Mediterranean countries.

John.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote

I agree in principle, but tell that to pensioners shivvering in the current cold snap, who may die if they reduce energy consumption. Many of these are already been forced to stay cold because of the increases in fuel prices.

John.

Indeed. They did not foresee that after a decade and more or rising property prices, there would be a market correction, or that the forces driving that market correction would coincide with the forces which might drive defaults. That was rather stupid since house prices tend to be driven by incomes, and pressure on incomes is what causes loan defaults.

A lot of people pointed this out beforehand, but the banks did not want to hear it. Just as the banks don't want to hear that paying vast bonuses to those who profited from the largest taxpayer bail-out in history probably was not going to play well.

Hubris is probably the defining characteristic of the banks. Guy

This is, by now, a religious argument. Guy