Google cannot find anything on LMS autocoaches, I understand some 57
ft compartment coaches had the last compartment converted into a cab
and two square windows added to the end for the driver. If anyone can
point me in the right direction for more information on LMS (or SR or
LNER) autocoaches I would be grateful.
This is so I can make a better job of updating . . .
Also, whilst on the subject, I seem to remember in the mid 1980s
someone converted a Farish 57 ft coach to an LMS autocoah and
suggested that the BR 2MT 2-6-2 from Minitrix would be a suitable loco
to use with it. Passenger stock is not something I have taken much
interest in so if anyone has any comments on this I would be most
grateful if they could post them
Is an autocoach the same thing as a push-pull driving coach?
I remember the Worth Valley push-pull stock parked in a siding circa
1960, after BR introduced DMUs.
Although the KWVR magazine is called "Push and Pull", no push-pull
trains have been operated in the preservation era. The loco runs around
and operates bunker/tender first in the "up" (i.e. downhill) direction.
If you can get your hands on a copy of LMS Coaches by Essery and
Jenkinson, there are two or three pages of details and photographs of
the push-pull stock. These coaches were all modified from standard
57' and 54' stock with three windows on the driving ends, and the
book has a 4mm scale dimensioned sketch of the modified end.
The two window LMS motor coaches were the earlier pre-Grouping Midland
From memory, there is also an article and 4mm scale drawing of a 57'
motor coach in the Railway Modeller in the 60s sometime in the LMS
Society series on coaches in that magazine.
If you're stuck, I could do a quick scan and email of the pages from
the book, and the RM if I can find it :-)
In the LMS/Midland biased books I have, the term Motor Coach or Push
Pull coach seem to be interchangeable. I think the term autocoach
seems to be a Western Region/GWR term for the same thing - i.e. a
coach with a driving end from which to remotely control a steam
locomotive at the other end.
Again, from the Essery and Jenkinson LMS Coach book, the driving
trailers were converted from standard brake end stock.
Intermediate coaches were converted from standard non-corridor
composites and all thirds. I presume that the level of conversion on
the intermediate coaches would be the fitting of the additional
pipework, etc., for the control gear.
Quite a few of the conversions were actually done in BR days in
The book also mentions that some (ex) LMS corridor stock was also
modified for motor working.
BTK Lot 1851 (1933) Nos. 5476/91/96 - became 3497-9
modified in BR days 1954/5
TO Lot 1692 (1929) Nos 8477, 8509, 8520, 8539 became 3462-5
modified around 1938
TO Lot 1807 (1931/2) Nos 8723, 8748, 8865 became 3484-6
modified in 1951
It would be interesting to know how these coaches were actually used
since the conversions were spread over such a long period and it would
only have been from 1954 onwards that you could have had a 'matched
set' as a corridor push-pull set - if that's what actually happened.
I am assuming that the BTK conversions would have been to driving
ends. I am now getting visions of a Scot or a Jubilee fitted with
motor control gear :-)
I'll try for the book at Stockport library, I think they have it
there. I have added your comments to the page. As a contributor you
have the option of having a website you would like to promote added to
the list. Any you would like to see listed?
As I remember it the only modification the Farish suburban 57 foot
coach was the provision of two rectangular windows in one end, each
surmounted by a strip of 20x20 thou strip scraped down to a wedge
shape. No modification (that I can remember) was associated with the
sides of the now drivers compartment. If you have any info or even a
photo of the ex MR type it would be a big help as that offers a fairly
simple option and the entire site is intended to encourage beginners
to have a go.
Give me to next weekend when I'll have the time and I'll dig out some
Midland details. In case you can get access to them sooner, the
details will come from the Dow & Lacy and the Essery & Jenkinson books
on Midland coaching stock.
Thanks, that's pretty much what I figured but from the attitude of RTR
manufacturers you would think it was rocket science or something to prodiuce
an LMS push-pull set coach.
Or indeed a Claughton :o)
Quite, nice simple task, good introduction to customising, you can buy
etched or cast ends to do the conversion or just cut holes in the end
like the real railway did.
Why worry about the manufacturers, do it yourself and become a
There is a photo of an LMS push-pull driving coach on this page of my site
(6th photo on the page)
It was one of the batch in the 244xx number series.
Motive power would be one of the push-pull fitted locos from the Ivatt or BR
standard 2-6-2 tanks (not all of these were fitted for push-pull operation -
I can search for the numbers if you need them.). In earlier years, a Webb
LNWR 2-4-2 tank, 0-6-2 tank, or a Midland 0-4-4 tank might have been used.
Definitely LOW LEVEL, John. You can just see part of a train in the short
bay / siding that was at the east end of the station - and it was the same
train as the one shown in the Oxford Road photo on the same page.
I couldn't find a pic on the net of the 1950s Worth Valley push-pull,
but here's a quote from the KWVR website:
With train services being reduced after 1956, Ingrow and Oxenhope
stations became unstaffed and tickets were issued via a guard on board
the three coach gang-wayed push-pull set that was introduced.
These were replaced by a DMU for a couple of years before BR closed the
line in 1962. It reopened as the KWVR in 1968.