LMS Autocoaches

Google cannot find anything on LMS autocoaches, I understand some 57
ft compartment coaches had the last compartment converted into a cab
and two square windows added to the end for the driver. If anyone can
point me in the right direction for more information on LMS (or SR or
LNER) autocoaches I would be grateful.
This is so I can make a better job of updating . . .
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Regards
Mike
Reply to
Mike
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Also, whilst on the subject, I seem to remember in the mid 1980s someone converted a Farish 57 ft coach to an LMS autocoah and suggested that the BR 2MT 2-6-2 from Minitrix would be a suitable loco to use with it. Passenger stock is not something I have taken much interest in so if anyone has any comments on this I would be most grateful if they could post them
Regards
Mike
Reply to
Mike
Is an autocoach the same thing as a push-pull driving coach?
I remember the Worth Valley push-pull stock parked in a siding circa 1960, after BR introduced DMUs.
Although the KWVR magazine is called "Push and Pull", no push-pull trains have been operated in the preservation era. The loco runs around and operates bunker/tender first in the "up" (i.e. downhill) direction.
Reply to
MartinS
Mike,
If you can get your hands on a copy of LMS Coaches by Essery and Jenkinson, there are two or three pages of details and photographs of the push-pull stock. These coaches were all modified from standard 57' and 54' stock with three windows on the driving ends, and the book has a 4mm scale dimensioned sketch of the modified end.
The two window LMS motor coaches were the earlier pre-Grouping Midland stock.
From memory, there is also an article and 4mm scale drawing of a 57' motor coach in the Railway Modeller in the 60s sometime in the LMS Society series on coaches in that magazine.
If you're stuck, I could do a quick scan and email of the pages from the book, and the RM if I can find it :-)
Jim..
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
Martin,
In the LMS/Midland biased books I have, the term Motor Coach or Push Pull coach seem to be interchangeable. I think the term autocoach seems to be a Western Region/GWR term for the same thing - i.e. a coach with a driving end from which to remotely control a steam locomotive at the other end.
Jim.
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
Kim,
Again, from the Essery and Jenkinson LMS Coach book, the driving trailers were converted from standard brake end stock.
Intermediate coaches were converted from standard non-corridor composites and all thirds. I presume that the level of conversion on the intermediate coaches would be the fitting of the additional pipework, etc., for the control gear.
Quite a few of the conversions were actually done in BR days in 1949/50.
The book also mentions that some (ex) LMS corridor stock was also modified for motor working.
BTK Lot 1851 (1933) Nos. 5476/91/96 - became 3497-9 modified in BR days 1954/5
TO Lot 1692 (1929) Nos 8477, 8509, 8520, 8539 became 3462-5 modified around 1938
TO Lot 1807 (1931/2) Nos 8723, 8748, 8865 became 3484-6 modified in 1951
It would be interesting to know how these coaches were actually used since the conversions were spread over such a long period and it would only have been from 1954 onwards that you could have had a 'matched set' as a corridor push-pull set - if that's what actually happened. I am assuming that the BTK conversions would have been to driving ends. I am now getting visions of a Scot or a Jubilee fitted with motor control gear :-)
Jim.
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
I'll try for the book at Stockport library, I think they have it there. I have added your comments to the page. As a contributor you have the option of having a website you would like to promote added to the list. Any you would like to see listed?
As I remember it the only modification the Farish suburban 57 foot coach was the provision of two rectangular windows in one end, each surmounted by a strip of 20x20 thou strip scraped down to a wedge shape. No modification (that I can remember) was associated with the sides of the now drivers compartment. If you have any info or even a photo of the ex MR type it would be a big help as that offers a fairly simple option and the entire site is intended to encourage beginners to have a go.
Regards
Mike
Reply to
Mike
Mike,
Give me to next weekend when I'll have the time and I'll dig out some Midland details. In case you can get access to them sooner, the details will come from the Dow & Lacy and the Essery & Jenkinson books on Midland coaching stock.
Jim.
Reply to
Jim Guthrie
Many thanks, this is turning out to me a lot more complicated than I had realised!
Mike
Reply to
Mike
Thanks, that's pretty much what I figured but from the attitude of RTR manufacturers you would think it was rocket science or something to prodiuce an LMS push-pull set coach.
Or indeed a Claughton :o)
(kim)
Reply to
kim
Quite, nice simple task, good introduction to customising, you can buy etched or cast ends to do the conversion or just cut holes in the end like the real railway did. Why worry about the manufacturers, do it yourself and become a modeller. Keith
Reply to
Keith
There is a photo of an LMS push-pull driving coach on this page of my site (6th photo on the page)
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It was one of the batch in the 244xx number series. Motive power would be one of the push-pull fitted locos from the Ivatt or BR standard 2-6-2 tanks (not all of these were fitted for push-pull operation - I can search for the numbers if you need them.). In earlier years, a Webb LNWR 2-4-2 tank, 0-6-2 tank, or a Midland 0-4-4 tank might have been used.
Bevan Price
Reply to
Bevan Price
Don't forget the 3F 0-6-0Ts operating from St Thomas's in Swansea on the line to Brynamman... I believe there were three of them fitted. Brian
Reply to
BH Williams
"Bevan Price" wrote
Is that shot really at Warrington Bank Quay LOW LEVEL please Bevan. It looks like the WCML station to me.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
Definitely LOW LEVEL, John. You can just see part of a train in the short bay / siding that was at the east end of the station - and it was the same train as the one shown in the Oxford Road photo on the same page.
Bevan
Reply to
Bevan Price
I couldn't find a pic on the net of the 1950s Worth Valley push-pull, but here's a quote from the KWVR website:
With train services being reduced after 1956, Ingrow and Oxenhope stations became unstaffed and tickets were issued via a guard on board the three coach gang-wayed push-pull set that was introduced.
These were replaced by a DMU for a couple of years before BR closed the line in 1962. It reopened as the KWVR in 1968.
Reply to
MartinS
There is an article in this months Model Rail mag on late period LNER autocoach working. Tried the library but no sign of the LMS coaches book - they are going to see if they can trace it for me.
Mike
Reply to
Mike
Many thanks - This seems to be the only one on the web, slightly surprising given the number ofpush pull units there were about.
Mike
Reply to
Mike

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