I'd never use a motor for R&D or sport use if I did not have reliable
motor test data available, such as with the NAR S&T motor
certification data sheets.
I have no problem with Contest Certified motors tested by TRA, as long
as NAR S&T examines the actual motor test data and certifies that it
meets the NAR's contest motor standards, but then I think NAR S&T
should do that with ALL TRA tested motors. I also think the NAR
should be able to delist a TRA tested motor when conditions warrant
that, even if TRA does not pull their certification. It is an issue
of consumer safety and insurance liability.
It would be up to NAR S&T to decide if the TRA stand is sensitive
enough, and properly calibrated, and properly used. Obviously, NAR
S&T has been satisfied in that regard for many years.
Alan, Trust but Verify.
on rmr people deny the existence of FAA waivers I repeatedly posted and
Even if the data were not commercial in confidence there would be no
benefit whatsoever to posting it to rmr.
Does CAR/TRA do this with NAR certs? It's called "cross certification", so
that three different groups don't need to do the same test! Does NAR
"contest" certs go beyond normal cert testing? (Uh, no)
I know for a fact that TMT and S&T work together well! If there was a
problem, it would be worked out long before it made it to RMR!
Please replace NAR with TRA and TRA with NAR, and you have EXACTLY what
happen with Kosdon Motor a few years back... TRA decerted all of Frank's
motors, even those certed by S&T, and with a bit of arm twisting NAR
decerted Kosdon motors certed by TMT, but would NOT decert Kosdons that S&T
had certified. Seems this was a case where NAR made the wrong call on
"consumer safety and insurance liability"...
The subject before you morphed it into a personal attaxk was if ANYONE
had experience testing a wide range of motor powers. You do not even
deny I have experience testing a wide range of motor powers do you?
Here are photos of some S motors (on the boosters) I designed:
Here is a test stand with a 50 pound (25N-2500N) load cell installed
(also accepts a 10 pound, 100 pound, 250 pound cell)
Here is a test stand which has an "R" motor firing in it, and the same
stand has had an "S" fired in it.
The larger firing had a 20,000 lb load cell to measure the approximately
13,000 lbs of thrust.
I of course invite you to post your own photos of your work. I would
really enjoy that.
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Yoda
TMT listed as certified motors that were never tested and data was never
published. NAR knew this to be a fact and listed those motors as
certified anyway per the treaty. The evidence of this claim being fact
has been well hashed out in past rmr posts.
If you do not accept the prior evidence as sufficient proof, I cannot
overcome your "deniability".
You are wrong. The precise opposite is true.
Let's pretend for the moment that this allegation is true. If so, you have
failed to prove Woody's statement false, since this allegation would show that
TMT and S&T do work well together.
No, the unsubstantiated allegation has been "well hashed out" here, but no hard
No personal attack, just a request for verification of a claim.
I have no idea what experience you have with testing motors.
Nice looking rockets, but this pic doesn't really tell me anything about the
Cool test stand. Is it yours?
Nice flame! The file seems to be damaged though -- there's about an inch or so
missing off the bottom of the photo.
I haven't gotten into motor making yet. Maybe someday.
Can you think of a specific example of circumstances when NAR would expose
itself to "insurance liability" by not refusing to cross-list a TRA-certified
motor? It would seem pretty far-fetched (IMHO) to allege that a given accident
had occurred because a motor was allowed to be flown at NAR as well as at TRA