George Sellios' layout

good for him. When I fly a Sikorsky *airplane*, I'll add it to the list. :)

-John

*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North American*

Then you haven't looked enough. Yes, there were areas that were clean and well maintained. But there were areas as Selios depicts. Ever wonder why they called it "Hell's Kitchen?" It wasn't because it was a preferred location...

Sorry, but that contention - that everything in a city was well maintained and clean, is as flawed as saying everything was as Selios depicts it.

Both ends of the spectrum, and everything in between, existed. Selios depicts one aspect.

And a C- for you in history. Inadequate research on your paper.

Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

IronPenguin wrote

Speaking of grades for history, I'd have to give you a D. The area of New York you mention was a major slum -- in the 19th century. By the

1930's and later (George's time period, according to him) huge parts of the city had been rebuilt including many slums. They looked a lot better in the 1930's than they looked 30 years before, or 30 years later. Now, if George had done a shanty town down by the tracks, that would be a realistic item for the 1930's...

Ptooey

You got that right, buddy roe...

I doubt he'd care as long as people keep buying Fine Scale Minatures kits.

I think this is a great discussion on what people see being a model railroader does and does not encompass.

Eric

Larry wrote:

"What is it with you guys? You are like a bunch of sharks on a feeding frenzy. I am not sure if the 1st amendment to the Constitution intended for us to go this far. I hope George is not reading any of this stuff."

He might have picked a neighborhood that was not a slum in the

1930s---maybe, but I doubt it. But there were slums in NYC in the 1930s. The lower east side was one.

Eric

Achmed Ptooey wrote:

New York you mention was a major slum -- in the 19th century. By the

1930's and later (George's time period, according to him) huge parts of the city had been rebuilt including many slums. They looked a lot better in the 1930's than they looked 30 years before, or 30 years later. Now, if George had done a shanty town down by the tracks, that would be a realistic item for the 1930's...

Without commenting on the other person's comments (I refuse to -- he's nothing but a troll.) , let me second Mike's views. I teach History. (2nd career by the way. I'm and olde phart -- and you know you're old when you're teaching as history what you learned as current events.

Anyway, I can show you many pictures of scenes just like George's layout, both in textbooks and out. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't consider any of it unrealistic. It's just not an era I care to model. I should also point out that localized slums exist even in good times.

One other comment while I'm boring everyone to tears. IMHO, we would all do well to expand our individual definitions of model railroading. If George Selios is more concerned with the structures and scenery than the railroad end, that's fine. I hate dispatching. My own RR is designed to operate almost without one. Instead it's aimed almost entirely at the engineer. There are even people, I hear tell, who model SD60s and such -- why is utterly beyond me :>)) -- but they are model railroaders too. One of the strengths of the hobby to my mind is its diversity.

Well, that's enough hot air from me for >

Yes.

-- Cheers Roger T.

of the Great Eastern Railway

Yup..lessee...it has some track, some trains running thru it. It is a scale model of tracks and scale model of a train...Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that defines model railroad.

What a great way to advertise.

-John

*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North American*

Fixed wing bigot. Hover on this!

LOL.

-- Cheers Roger T.

of the Great Eastern Railway

It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

Neat project. I'm still grateful for the ability of Mr Sikorsky's helicopters to absorb a great deal of punishment and still fly, after a fashion, as far as the water, at least.

Is a basement full of O27 stuff on high tubular 3 rail track, with formalized dispatch and operating procedures, a "model" railroad, or just a big toy train layout?

How many model railroaders can dance on the head of a pin? How many should just sit on the other end?

Wow, talk about bigotry. You equate laundry lines with slums????

I don't see any graffiti, worn out advertising signs, or crumbling brick. In case you so called historians are not familiar with laundry lines, that is how most laundry was dried before indoor dryers became so popular. I was raised in a middle class suburb, and I remember my mom hanging out the laundry in the 1960's...

Eric wrote:

Actually, there are no buildings on the planet that resemble the tall, towering brick buildings that George cobbled from Magnuson kits... but that's a whole other can of worms.

Ptooey

Depends on how it is operated. It is the philosophy of the thing that makes the difference, not what the trains look like. I have always thought it would be fun to operate a big "toy train" model railroad in a prototypical manner. I've never done it, but I'd like to. I think you'd soon forget that the third rail was there and that there was a scale relationship problem.

OTOH, if you just ran trains around helter skelter, Gomez Addams style, then it would most certainly be just toy trains; whether or not they had three rails or were all Overland Brass.

Lunchtime, gotta go.........................F>

Dig out an old Model Railroader and look for articles on Frank Ellison's Delta Lines. Frank was serious about operations and inspired a generation of modelers. His trains were 3rd-rail O scale, and scenery etc were plain and simple -- the stage on which the trains performed.

Ptooey

Well, I have my ideas, and have already stated them here. I will wait a while before I put them up again to see if others can be pursuaded to post their own ideas. Someone else said that if it has tracks and trains that run on them, then it's a model rairoad. I disagree. What is your idea, Rath. of what constitutes a model railroad and what constitutes something else that has trains on it, but isn't a model railroad? Where do YOU make the distinction? Is Brio a model railroad? What about Thomas the Tank Engine? What about the huge Santa Fe display at the Museum of Science and Industry? Northlandz The San Diego club at Balboa Park? What is- and what is not- a model railroad? I want to know what you think. You tell me.

..................F>