George Sellios' layout

Well, when I saw Magnolia, I thought the rain of frogs was an homage to The Last Wave. The cold city in Metropolis is a cultural icon - despite it being a German film. I don't think I'm hopelessly U.S. - centric, just eccentric.

ta ta, Sweetie

That's a good way to put it... and I think it illuminates a lot of the "bad behavior" people complain about, without knowing exactly what to call it, or why people do it.

I remember my high school course on propaganda and persuasion. They had names for all of the various devices, and I understood the devices completely but forgot the nomenclature so I flunked the test. But they come back to me over the years.

Scapegoating, the practice of blaming a group of people (often defining that group in the same breath) for this or that problem affecting "the rest of us", i.e. those fortunate enough to not be included in the scapegoat group. It's used frequently in the hobby circles - the basis for the [blank] is ruining the hobby argument.

Another one I had forgotten all about is the straw man. It all came back to me after a few times being stuffed in effigy and then having the stuffing knocked out of me. That's the practice of creating a mockup of "the enemy". A voodoo doll, one that is given the recognizable characteristics of your nemesis, but is otherwise defenseless, to be shredded or set fire to, to rounds of applause. Unfortunately this is the faceless enemy of a certain magazine editor, although he builds arachnids of straw and then exterminates them with RAID.

Amazing sometimes how well some people can use these techniques without even being consciously aware of it.

Andy

-----------------------------------------------------------

- Pre-Interstate Urban Archaeology

-----------------------------------------------------------

What has been stated here by me and a few others is our opinions of what is and what is not within the scope of our concept of model railroading. What actually constitutes a viable, workable, interesting replication in miniature of a real-world railroad and its workings. I have my opinions and ideas and have gone so far as to state some of them and ask others to do the same. I return, I am getting a lot of crap about 'Who do you think you are to judge others?' Well I'll tell you who I am. I am a man with an opinion. I like the work of some people and I do not care for the work of others. I think some model railroads are great and other model railroad wannabes are not so great. I do not mind stating my opinion and asking for the opinion of others.

I do not, have never, and will never subscribe to the idea that "If you are having fun, you are doing it right" You can have fun playing with a Brio layout, but you are most certainly not model railroading in any form or shape whatever when you do. That is my opinion Yours may differ. Neither of us is wrong. If you think a circle of track on a bare plywood sheet is a model railroad then so be it. THAT......is what I wanted to know. I strongly disagree.........however, It doesn't matter at all that I agree or disagree. Each of us is entitled to his opinion, which means that I am as entitled just as much to my ultra-conservative opinion as the next fellow is to his ultra-liberal one.

So get offa my butt and put your own opinions out here for all to see.

Personally, I think a circle of track on a bare plywood sheet is as boring as hell. I wouldn't give it more than fifteen seconds attention. AND if the truth were to really be told neither would most of you, dear readers; in spite of what you may post here to the contrary.

..............F>

Nomex, GA

Why should that settle it? Did God publish the video or write the review? You don't REALLY, seriously think that it's that easy, do you?

Oh, by the way. I have those videos. My opinion has not changed.

.............F>

But none of them are any good.

Yes but always in an area thats much smaller than you want.

Expencive and useless endevor

An even more expencive and still useless endevor

An unhealthy fanatical tendancy

Cheaper than collecting trains but still useless

Well I guess it at least gets the over weight folks out doors

Only if you are George Sellios and not a Model Railroader

Only for those who have low expectations for excitement

Only for those with even lower expations for excitement

Only for those who have no sence of time and place and think "Back to the Future" is a true story.

See responce to #4

Only for those with over active and halucanitory imaginations

See responce to #4

Only for those who don't get enough sex or need medication

Will soon all be dead

Will all be dead shortly after all those who buy and build kits

See resonce to #16

See resonce to #16

See resonce to #16

but only if you have a political position you must tell everyone about.

Just kidding of course. Its all fun, that's point and you are exactly right. Bruce

Well, that's just Ab Fab! :-)

Perhaps today. But for the first 30-odd years of my life, a circle of track on bare plywood is about as good a description as any of what I had to run trains on. Nor was I a member of a club. Every now and then I built a new circle of track on fresh plywood, but never too much more. I did build a switching layout when I was about 25, but never used it at home, only at shows.

So what held my interest in the hobby for all these years? Model building. Visiting other layouts. Train shows. Hobbyshop bull sessions. Running my stuff around in circles on that plywood never really totally lost its appeal. I would run trains for hours at a time when I was a kid, on the double oval 8x6 my dad built... again bare plywood.

I guess a lot of people would find the hypnotic effect of a circling train to be pretty boring. Well, it's also boring sitting in a siding waiting for the dispatcher to give you a signal :-) I can't explain what's wrong with me, other than not fitting your definition of a model railroader. I have certainly never built anything that operated anything like a real railroad.

Which is a great set-up for a straw man takedown. First paint me as an "elitist" because I say I'm a prototype modeler, then bring up that cliche' "Where's YOUR layout?" and after the laughter and applause dies down, everything is still the same. I have always followed my passion, and long ago realized I could have anything I wanted but not everything I wanted. The usual excuses about why I don't have a layout apply - space, time, money, etc... but the truth is, if having the layout were more important than building diesels, then I'd have one.

And FWIW, I've never claimed to be a model railroader. I tell lay people that my hobby is model railroading, or sometimes I just cut the the chase and say I play with toy trains. I've always observed that the older people get, the less they care about labels, or what anyone else thinks of them. Its kind of fun to see it happening to me...

Andy

You haven't seen my cat...

Mark.

No doubt to your great relief! But you have to wonder what was nasty enough to scare off the rattle snake, eh?

All the best,

Mark.

I'd hope so!

You haven't met my cat!

Yeah, but around here you never see a cat near a KFC outlet. But you can buy "chicken" with four drumsticks, no wings...

You can make a whole hat out of a cat.

No, that would just be adding insult to injury.

You HAVE met my cat!

Jay, I get the distinct impression that you've a bad experience with a cat at some stage.

But then again, dogs and trains can be problematic, too. When I was kid we had a bitza who would chase and nip at anything that moved. We were visiting a 71/4" gauge live steam track one day, and the dog managed to slip his leash and attempt to bite an oncoming train. Sadly, the poor bugger didn't survive. I've never ever taken a dog near a railway, miniature or full size, again.

Cheers,

Mark.

Lack of tasty rodents will move them right along to new hunting grounds.

................F>

That's good to know - that means Bruce is safe!

Mark.

Also the residences of a King snake will usually make a rattler leave (or become decease)! Personally I like King snakes around and don't care for rattlers at all.

Yeah, I've been there too. I tore out my railroad some years ago when I built a new house and moved. I have been busy rearing children and earning a living until just recently and have not built the new "Gulf Central Ry" Now it looks like I may never build it. I think I am just going to model the GM&O, a-la Jim Six, and put the real railroad in a ficticious place. Well, semi-ficticious. I think I will model the Bayshore & Southern RR subsidiary of the GM&O, which was partly abandoned about

1932 and mostly abandoned by 1940. My era will be 1947 - 1950. This means all of my GC stuff will go bye-bye. Tough. Such is life.

Anyhooo......right this minute, as I sit here typing this, I have a sort-of timesaver in the workshop and a very small layout in my father-in-law's basement. It was built for the kids (now adults) and me to play trains on. It has continuous running with a little bit switching and a small yard and engine facility; a two-track engine facility. I would classify it as a layout, but not as a model railroad.

Ditto

When I was a kid, my imagination was a great deal more mature than it is now. I think it can be a problem to know too much. Some things are more fun when you do know all about them. Today, as a senior adult, I do not have the patience and desire to use my imagination to replace what my eyes see with what I wish they could see. Never the less, I can greatly enjoy a switching puzzle or contest on a bare-board setup. I think, though, that this is something seperate and apart from "model railroading" as I define it in my mind. I am addicted to crossword puzzles and chess as well as naval war games, thus I consider that the switching contest stems from this part of my psyche and not from my infatuation with trains and railroading.

Brother, you can say that again!

Whether or not you fit my definition of a model railroader is completely besisde the point. It makes no difference at all. THAT was never the direction I wanted the thread to take. What I wanted was YOUR definition of what you think a model raialroad is and what it is not. Never mind the man, straw or otherwise. I never wanted to address the issue of whether a person was or was not a "real" model railroader. That is another issue altogether from what I attempted to do this week.

I am an "elitist" as well, for a similar reason; operations. I am the same way about operations that you are about fidelity to prototype. To my way of thinking, that puts us in the same boat. Slightly different focus, but very similar attitude toward the hobby. I don't mind quite so much if my GP30 has the extended cab side or not, BUT, you are a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious dummy if you don't know class lights, train superiority, numbering, and proper operation of extras and sections. An elitist is always going to be a PITA to someone

I already covered this inane comment several days ago. When I declare that the Detroit Tigers 'stink' and that the Atlanta Braves are the best team in pro baseball, don't EVEN jump up and say "Oh yeah, where's YOUR professional ball club" That is a moronic thing to do and say. It is not necesary for me to own a ball club to have and express my thoughts on the subject. This has, in fact been discussed on another list and, sure enough, the usual idiots are saying just that.

"Where is YOUR layout?" Is a last-ditch effort to avoid being forced to admit that the work in question has flaws. It doesn't matter where MY layout is, THIS is the one that is the topic of discussion and THIS is the one that sux. OK? It is not necessary for me to parade my talent, or lack thereof, in order to form an opinion about the world around me. A layout either sux or it doesn't. Maybe it sux just a little bit, or maybe it is a hunk-O-junk. Maybe...........it's great. Not everyone is going to form the same opinion. Everyone should not form the same opinion. We are individuals, not the Borg. It is these opinions that I wanted to read. Instead, I got something else that I did not want. Instead, a bunch of people chose to think that Froggy was trying to accuse them of failing to measure up to being "real" model railroaders". Welcome to groupthink, Froggy!

...................F>

See that lump about two thirds the way down that boa constrictor...

Eric

Mark Newt You haven't seen my cat...

See that pile of shreaded "tastes like chicken" that was the little cat.

Jim Stewart

Yes, but when you go to the LHS, Are You Being Served?

Jay CNS&M Wireheads of the world, unite!

I want to find those spiders that supply the 8-packs of drumsticks! On second thought, maybe not.

Puffy, itchy eyes, stuffy nose... A friend had a polydactylic cat (2 "thumbs" on each front paw). When he had enough petting, he'd dig in and bite.

A neighbor's Chihuahua tried to do the same. It had to go almost half a mile and cross a marsh to get there.

Jay CNS&M Wireheads of the world, unite!

Reminds me of the day my Maltese killed a Rottweiler. Got caught in his throat.

Just kidding. Great imagery, though.

Jay CNS&M Wireheads of the world, unite!