Hornby 2007 rumour

In message , John Turner writes

Dunno. All I heard was it was a blue Pullman.

wrote

I would have thought so too, but Hornby have some strange ideas. I can't see a Blue Pullman being the commercial success is wasn't when first released by Tri-ang. Note I emphasise "wasn't"!

John.

"Peter Abraham" wrote

Apoloigies, I'm sure you're right!

John.

In message , John Turner writes

What about the South Wales Pullman?

I can't answer that because it did not exist when I left the UK. I understood that there were only two trains built so presumably it doubled to Cardiff and Bristol alternately ( I know that it did only one down and back to TM daily so there would have been plenty of time in between breakdowns).

"Peter Abraham" wrote

You are possibly referring to there being only two trains (6 car) operating on the LMR. There were another three sets (8 car)allocated to the WR. i.e.

5 complete sets and a total of 36 vehicles.

With a small degree of improvement, I believe that they could well be a good seller for modellers of the late BR steam era (introduced 1960 and all gone by May '73) as they would make a welcome change to the maroon loco hauled and green MU stock operating at that time.

I remember a camping experience in 1960 or 61 in the Peak District, the highlight of which was a glimpse in the distance of this futuristic form of travel.

There is a lot of information on the Blue Pullman sets at

Dave W.

They were also used on soccer specials - in particular by supporters of teams which played in blue - so they could be seen practically anywhere in the country at one time or another.

(kim)

In article , Jerry writes

Hornby measured up the Lynes coaches on the Bluebell Railway a couple of year's ago. When I heard about this I wrote to Simon Kohler suggesting which types to produce, as Southern Railway coaches ran in sets Lets see what turns up.

The push pull sets only appeared circa 1959 and used very atypical stock. The open 3rds were previously often paired with catering vehicles and the Bk compos were "1935" stock, produced in penny numbers.

Whilst Richard Maunsell was the Chief Mechanical Engineer, he was a manager trained in locomotive engineering, with no expertise in coaches. He had two deputies on the coaching side, Surrey Warner came from the LSWR and concentrated on the EMU side, Lionel Lynes came from the SECR and designed the steel stock.

Oddly enough, Keith Robertson's "Blue Pullman" book doesn't - on a quick look - give a definitive answer to the shed question. I believe that, at the London end it was Cricklewood and Trafford Park at Manchester. However, the book does state that the spare set was kept at Reddish, and also that there were carriage washing facilities at both Reddish and Kentish Town. All a bit confusing! The other thing I recall about the old Tri-ang Blue Pullman was that it was closer to being a model of the WR sets than the LMR - there were some subtle differences between the two. Probably the most obvious were that the all First Class Midland Pullman comprised six vehicles in total, while the eight vehicle Western Region Pullmands had both First and Second Class. Hope this helps, and ready to be corrected if any of the above is inaccurate.

David Costigan

"Jerry" wrote [1] IIRC these units were fitted from new for multiple unit operation and had control jumper cables on the nose ends, if not they were fitted when transferred to the WR.

Nope, They didn't get the multiple working till they went to the WR and about the time the livery was reversed to the Blue on Grey body colours.

[ re the Metro-Camel Blue Pulman units ]

Forget that, or at least half the total numbers, I was reading the numbers of driving coaches rather than the number of units - DOH! :~(

Think uncomfortable ride, shortcomings with the Swiss bogies which were mostly worked out again when Swiss bogies were used again on the Mk4's.

Chris

Wrong, Jerry.

You must have misread the information in that useful ABC.

4 x 6 car units = 24 vehicles, 6 x 8 car units = 48 vehicles, a grand total of 72 vehicles but you will find that only 36 vehicle numbers are listed.

I think you have possibly forgotten that each set had two Motor Brake vehicles (first for LMR, second for WR), one at each end.

I stand by my original posting that there were only two (6 car) units operating on the LMR and another three sets (8 car) allocated to the WR. i.e. 5 complete sets and a total of 36 vehicles.

After transfer the two ex-LMR sets were modified at Swindon Works to operate in multiple if required as it was thought that there could be occassions when 6 vehicles were insufficient. Modifications to the bottom of the cab end to give unhindered access to the coupling/drawhook were also carried out at the same time.

Dave W.

....not to mention kitchen cars, which were only available from Kitmaster - they're now highly prized, and indeed highly priced(!), collector's items.

David Belcher

Not so sure about that - the Metro-Schlieren bogies of the Pullman sets had a reputation for rough riding (even on the official BTF "Blue Pullman" documentary, one exterior shot seems to show a fair bit of bouncing about as the train heads south through Derbyshire).

David Belcher

about a

Compared to a non commonwealth bogie under a Mk1 or one of the pre-war offerings from one of the 'Big Four' were they really that bad?

The South Wales Pullman pre-dates the Bristol and Birmingham ones, being introduced as a steam-hauled service with traditional umber & cream cars ca.1955 (possibly to tie in with Cardiff getting official status as the Welsh capital??). However, because it was an established train with stock already available, it probably transferred over to Blue Pullman working after the other two services were introduced - I do have a late 50s/early 60s ABC which includes a pic of a shiny new D8xx "Warship" heading the old-style South Wales Pullman. I also suspect that this loco-hauled WR Pullman stock may have ended up being the standby "Wells Fargo" set.

David Belcher

"David Westerman" wrote

I think you have possibly forgotten that each set had two Motor Brake vehicles (first for LMR, second for WR), one at each end.

Dave W.

And only one of those were ever in Service from the off at any one time (MR), the second being a stand by incase of failure ! Good old Midland region eh ?

However, I'm not sure if the 2nd unit came in when the lunchtime service to Nottingham comenced or if this was just a second path for the Midland units after their trip to London from Manachester (It only did one service a day - there in the AM and back again in the eve) Must have been one of the biggest expense for luxory the railways have known. I very much doubt you would go for a 2 for 1 offer on a dmu today ! :-)

I have seen pictures of them shedded Manchester way near to where the Woodhead line once ran if that sheds any light on where they were stabled ?

see

TOS