Flip Kwikset left-hand lock knob to right-hand keyhole reversal

Stormy tries to learn as little as possible, and he is very successful at it.

Home Depot trainees make more than Stormy does and it pisses him off. Home Depot is a successful company with stores all over America, Stormy is an unsuccessful wannabe locksmith and HVAC tech with a store out of his house. That pisses him off as well.

You should have hired stormy to do it. After he broke the kwikset, your door, the frame and probably some other assorted stuff around your house nobody could call you a cheapskate anymore with what you'd be paying to fix it.

For locks a locksmith is your best bet, unless you want the cheap F line stuff like kwikset etc. In general they won't match the box stores price on it.

A door lock seems like a common enough

None of the low grade locks you find at the local hardware store are all that secure.

No. Just the knob locks.

Yes in most places.

If there is a grade 1 anything sold under the Titan name it's news to me. Titan is a glorified kwikset.

For normal residential use in a glass foor it doesn't matter that much. Get an alarm and/or use security laminate on the glass so it takes them some time to smash it.

It's Chris's competition. They sell locks and AC units and don't know anything to speak of about either, just like him.

well ??? I am staying out of this one. but I will admit that I agree with ya so far :-)

g'day Steve

One of the problems of the "weekend warriors" is that they seem to watch too much TV on how to improve their homes and then whine when it doesn't come out the way the crew of professional painters or plumbers or tile setters or landscapers put hours into the project for a 5 minute segment on a half-hour TV program... Or they seem to complain when they buy something and it can't be installed in "a few minutes"...

So let's say that I agree with the theory that has been made by some of the tradesmen here that say people come crawling to UseNet to get free advice they should be paying for from a professional because after all not everyone can follow instructions on or in the box that comes with a lockset on how to install it properly... I especially liked how the OP of this thread oh say about

170 or so posts ago said, "So much for the "Easy Installation" and "Fits All Doors" on the package!" as this has been a rather interesting and entertaining thread that arose out of someone's need to vent at a perceived injustice...

Installing locks (even as a homeowner on your own home) does require that you have some basic background knowledge on how to take them apart and reconfigure them if your door doesn't match the standard default factory assembly -- or if you don't specify and purchase one of the four handings for locksets specifically... Knowing how to flip the hand of the "universal" locksets is akin to knowing what kind of paintbrushes and roller covers to use for applying different kinds of paint to different surfaces of your house...

I really think that comparing a specialized skill like locksmithing to general upkeep and maintenance of a home is a poor analogy, as being able to push a lawnmower around your yard or trim your bushes doesn't make you a landscaper, nor does unclogging a drain with a plunger make you a plumber...

You pay trade professionals to be able to accommodate any challenges they may encounter while doing the task at hand when you call them to your home... While it is true that most people can do the things you listed eventually after looking up the answers to their problems, many will not even know what the nature of their problem is nor how to describe it using the proper terms...

I really find it interesting that some posters here seem to think that simply because a person purchased maybe $80 worth of locks from a big box Home Improvement center that said purchaser is somehow entitled to have free access to the collective knowledge of all the building trades at their beck and call -- that is simply not the case, and in stores like Home Depot or Lowe's you may only be lucky enough to find one person working in each department that truly knows what he or she is talking about... After all the goal of such stores is retail orientated, not educational...

Do you think that someone who chooses to buy a bathtub or shower unit or any product for that matter from such a store should be entitled to receive detailed step-by-step instructions on how to install it in their home? Including additional supplemental instructions on how to deal with unique or unusual installation situations? I don't, and people purchasing things at such stores shouldn't need to be warned with an "installation may not be as easy as you think it seems" sticker or label on each and every product that is sold...

People should have to pay for someone who possesses the knowledge to bail them out of a situation they ASSUMED they could handle...

Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

"'Key" snipped-for-privacy@Ya.Net wrote in message news:45b6ecd8$0$28088$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com...

My problem with the guy is based on his own posts. Not only does he not know what he's doing, and not care, but his main concern is that his customers not find out what he muffed up. This is the guy who will get a call to come open a Tann (I saw one of these once where somebody like Chris had drilled not one but 4 holes around the lever lock, they busted the glass on the first hole but kept on drilling anyway, and yeah, it crosslocks. Worst part? Then the customer found the key.) or ISM, or whatever, doesn't even know what it is when he gets the call, says "sure no problem, I graduated Foley Belsaw", has no books because he won't spend the money, then spends two days randomly drilling 12 or so holes in it hitting nothing right but any and all relock glass. Then you get to hear the customer go on about how crooked and/or incompetent locksmiths are when you tell them how much to fix it all. If he just made a mistake and then fixed it it would be one thing but he makes the mistake then hopes like hell nobody finds out. I guarantee the majority of his customers come away from the experience with a dim view of locksmiths/HVAC/refrigeration techs or whatever he is posing as that day. Th e things he does are not a game. He is messing around with peoples security and with potentially dangerous equipment like furnaces. He does several trades a BIG disservice by hacking around at what he does. I've said it before and I'll say it again one of these days somebody is going to get hurt, if they haven't already.

I bet.

Yeah, well, you will find out pretty quick that in the real world the vast majority of contractors are not like the one's on TV that the DIY shows hire. A lot of them are like the ones that guy, I forget his name or the show, but anyway he goes behind shoddy contractors and points out everything they screwed up and what has to be done to do it right, then brings in his own crew and fixes it. Alot of DIY do their own work just to avaoid the headache of handholding contractors that can't or won't do what they contracted to.

Or they seem to complain when they buy something and it

Why even say it for the sake of argument? It's a totally idiotic argument. Usenet exists for the sake of free exchange of information and ideas. That's it's whole reason for being. If people don't want to freely exchange information and ideas then they should stay the hell off Usenet.

Actually as somebody who has installed locks for years I can see their point. Pretty much the things are retailed straight to consumers who don't know much about locks. Because of that it should be end user friendly to install. On the other hand look at the instructions that come with a simplex which is mostly installed by pros. Those instructions are far better and more thorough than what kwikset provides. That paradox makes no sense. If you look at the total man hours wasted every year flipping kwikset cylinders when it would be easy to make it so you don't have to her point makes even more sense. Just because I can easily do something doesn't mean I appreciate having to do it again and again and again if there's a better way.

And going out and charging $60 to flip a cylinder on a kwikset doesn't make you a locksmith so what's your point?

One more time: Why in the hell do you think usenet is here? Nobody puts a gun to anybody's head and makes them post an answer and the yutz complaining the loudest posted over and over without giving one anyway.

that is simply not the case, and in stores like Home

And what do you suppose happens to product a customer can't install? Yea it gets returned. That's sure what a retailer wants.

That depends. Do you want them to buy it from you or somebody else? If you want the sale you will make sure they get all the help you can practically give them, which is why big stores like Lowes and Home Depot have home improvement books that cover pretty much anything you want to know, and also have at least a few people who actually know the dept they work in, it's also why manufactuers include directions. It would be cheaper not too. Until the product gets returned to retailers and the retailers drop the manufacturers product line. It's also why manufacturers have 800 numbers. They want to avoid returns. It's called customer service.

And I bet you aren't in control of a large company like Home Depot or other big retailer either are you?

and people purchasing things at

Doesn't really matter to them. They can just return it. As the retailer do you want that or do you want to provide better customer service to prevent it?

Ah that explains the idealistic outlook. Get out in the real world a little. You'll find out how it works soon enough. As you can see it doesn't really matter what you think. The poster got the information, several times over in fact, which once more is the whole point of Usenet. if the guy who was bitching and complaining had just told her how to do it he would have spent

1/20th the time and the thread might have ended in a couple posts.

speaking of HVAC men..

recently had a 120k BTU furnace put in, and new duct work.. 92 or

93% efficiency..

power went out here for a week, due to ice, and I didnt have any way to run furnace, SOO, I turned on 2 burners of the cook stove, just to keep the house as warm as possible.. these burners rated at a MAX of 7600 BTU each.. I turned them to low range..

GEE.. the 2 burners kept the house EQUALLY as warm as the 120 btu FURNACE that was running 5 minutes on, and 10 minutes off, cycle time.. daughter and her hubby and baby came over, cause they were without power also, GEE, this house is getting HOT.. temp went up

4 degrees..

when things get settled I am going to have a LONG talk with the heating man.. something ROTTEN in Denmark, as the saying goes

--Shiva--

No it doesn't.

if what you say is true ? again, I agree... but why don't you go ahead tell us how you really feel :-)

g'day

A retailer like Home Depot doesn't care if some things are returned... Especially by a homeowner that can't seem to install it even if the product has been damaged... HD does millions in sales from commercial customers during the week and then an million or so more in sales from the "weekend warriors" at EACH store...

They only concern they have about returns is whether or not they can return the product to the vendor for a refund or just eat the loss and throw the returned item in the trash compactor...

Umm, giving detailed instructions to install a product that requires a licensed professional to install (such as a bathtub or shower stall) is not customer service...

As to having people in each sales department area that "actually know what they are doing" really isn't realistic at Home Depot, you will usually get a retired person who needs supplemental retirement income working there or a maintenance technician who works a regular schedule somewhere else and is moonlighting to earn a few extra bucks... You won't find a real electrician or plumber or tile setter in a place like that, they can make way more money actually doing the work rather than standing around for an hourly wage in the $11/hr to $15/hr range...

No I am not, but neither are you... Have you ever worked for Home Depot before, because I actually have... So I understand quite a few of the things that they do and their motivations for doing so...

That is not true... The purchaser can return an item for a refund or store credit only as the return/refund policy on the reciept and other protections under state law allow... There should be no expectation of buying something puttering around with it for several months and then trying to return it for a refund -- a person would be lucky to get even a store credit in that situation...

Idealistic outlook ??? Sounds to me that idealistic is much better a thing to be than aggressively bitter... It could be said that if you were as good a locksmith as you claim to be that you wouldn't have the time to prowl UseNet to give away your free advice, as you would be busy with actual paying customers rather than trying to criticize other people posting here and -- it seems attempting to have the last word...

Evan, ~~ formerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

Sounds like the furnace is massively over sized for your home. And very possibly, there are several other serious problems. Yes, it's time to chat with your furnace guy.

Not what I say. What he himself says. Again and again and again...... I think I've given the guy a fair shake considering my opinion is based almost entirely on his own posts. Who would paint him in a more favorable light than himself?

Holmes on Homes. Mike? Holmes.

How big is the house? Make sure you don't have an open duct or a return someplace.

-snip-

LOL You don't need a licensed professional to build a custom shower from scratch much less to install a drop in or prefab one. You need a little common sense and research. You usually want to start by figuring how much wall you have to tear out to get it in the room.

A lot of places you don't even need a licensed professional to install wiring. If it passes code it passes code. You need a license to do it for hire but not for your own needs.

to install (such as a bathtub or shower stall) is not customer

The last one I personally did had about 12 pages of fine print instructions in 3 languages that covered just about any question you could ask, everything from proper sub floor prep to plumbing rough in. It also had a number to call with any questions. With remodels the hardest part with a prefab is usually getting them in the room, which is why a lot of times it's just as easy to build it from scratch.

-snip-

Look on the back of any of your credit card statements. See that thing that says "special rule for credit card purchases" or words to that effect? If it's a local purchase they are dissatisfied with and they pay by credit card they can return it no matter what the store policy is. The credit card company will virtually always side with the cardholder. The card holder is where they make their money and the card holder can always cancel a credit account. The merchant has no practical choice but to accept credit cards. I have had merchants refuse to take back defective products and actually had the chargeback upheld and received a final credit BEFORE the merchandise was ever actually returned. Once or twice I even had merchants that were so stubborn they refused to accept the defective product back AFTER the final credit was issued in which case I had no option but to just keep it and the money.

2,000 feet.. 6" walls, insulated, with 3/4" wood boxing on outside, insulation under vinyl siding.. --Shiva--

One story? The 6" walls will make a difference with the R-value of the insulation you can get in there, of course the contractor should have factored all that in.