[conclusions]

WOW! I guess i really hit a nerve there!

This one.

MOTORS OR CUSTOM CHECKLIST: Please note that due to NEW abusive government regulations added WITHOUT legal process we are not shipping motors until they pull their head out of their *** and return our civil rights to us, or we force it out of them through litigation. Yes we are pissed. And rightfully so. 30 years of cooperation and THIS is what we get in return.

My offer still hold. What's your pleasure?

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

This should be in the FAQ

Repetitously.

The one on the orders page that has Ray in such an uproar.

Bob

NFPA-1122,1125,1127 (state laws) as administered by designated AJH's NAR and TRA are the issue.

No statement of why cert refusals happened are forthcoming.

That's true :)

No. I am trying to flesh out actual facts. I am inviting you to present them.

You already know the facts. You just won't accept them.

Hmmm.... my take on this is the following.

What Jerry is (was?) trying to do with the "US Rockets" motor brand is to leverage "non-hobby" production capacity for larger motors (i.e., the industrial/military sector), by ordering small stuff made up at factories that do larger motors for other applications. I suspect, if this is _anything_ like the electronics outsourcing business I used to work in, that the deal would be structured such that the actual "motor fab" stays very much in the background... their customer (i.e., Jerry in this case) provides plans and specifications and picks up pallets of finished product. Marketing to the end-user, consumer agency certification, etc. are to be between Jerry and the relevant entities. (Outsource manufacturers may well not have a cataloged product line of their own - the business is often exclusively custom orders.)

Now this is all perfectly legitimate IMHO, but I expect that the network of confidential design licensing and outsource contract arrangements that is probably involved here has the characteristic that Jerry is not going to be in the position to present the sort of "paper trail" that would apply to an outfit like Aerotech (where the "product vendor" and "upstream manufacturer" are the same entity - I guess that is an example of what you must mean, above, by "the easy way that others have done?").

I'm sure Jerry's suppliers would be using propellant of known characteristics, that has been properly "examined and classified", and is thus "legal for safe shipment" and all that, but the "papers" are, naturally, gonna be "in someone else's name" (i.e., that of the entity that originally had the propellant tested and classified, quite possibly long before Jerry came along and ordered some).

-dave w

So, is humidity a factor in propellant production? Is there an issue with mixing it in my kitchen over the dishwasher vent?

Joel. phx

Uproar over. Fixate on something else now Ray.

Jerry does not outsource his motors.

I'm not a lawyer, but I sounds like a textbook case of libel to me. Because if Jerry can prove that the statement you made (quoted below) is untrue and you knew it at the time, he has a rock solid case for libel. And unless you were directly told by the DOT agent, Jerry, or heard the exchange, your have no reason to believe what you said is true.

That said, I have no intentions to sue, but I will recommend that you not make statements which have absolutely no basis in fact. They are quickly disproven by simple logic and when that happens, you look like an fool.

Philip

"Jerry, the DOT told YOU that your paperwork was invalid." - Dave Grayvis

In simple terms, that would be "Put up or shut up"

Philip

Jerry, your paperwork is, invalid. Anyone who purchases from you and takes possission of your motors has received illeagally shipped hazmat, just for starters. Now, that's about as libelous as it gets. Please, please, please, sue me, have your lawyer contact me; please, please, please, please.

W. E. Fred Wallace

In your case I suggest you do so, and cast it in front of the fireplace too.

Go ahead Jerry, prove me a lyer.

Well said.

That ends this convo in a nice tight circle.

Jerry

Break it by email.