No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!



Care to define "few people"? Me? Jerry" John? Jim? Any one else? Should that be the father of the HQ managers decision? Or the boards?
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined. -- Patrick Henry, speech of June 5 1788
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On 8 May 2005 08:00:49 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

I don't know who Jim is. Jerry has been told what he has to do to be readmitted and has chosen not to. All he had to do was applologize and promise not to break any rules again. John I'm not so sure about but I'd say probably not.
From what I know, all you did was piss off Bruce Kelly. I'm still in and have done a bit of that myself. I guess you could get back in if you wanted.
The situation you mentioned should only be up to the BOD and in no way should it be decided by HQ. Kelly was voted out because people did not want him doing crap like that. If he is pulling stuff like this, I think the facts and whatever evidence that is available should be presented to the BOD & the should consider taking HQ away from him. The current BOD is not into kicking people out like BK was.
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I have to admit to a falsehood to help them justify their illegal acts.
No thanks.
My "three year suspension" is long since over. Why have they not automatically reinstated me?
Also at no time did FAA agree with TRA on their claims.

I did THAT in public on rmr and cc'd TRA to PROVE that claim is false.
Fetch.

It didn't work.

So why have they not simply reinstated ALL people removed?
And pay compensation through lifetime memberships. After all, Bruce Kelly is actually guilty of more "crimes against the hobby" than all those folks combined and he has a lifetime membership. Presumably for taking club assets and abusing club rules really, really well, for many, many years.
Jerry
"I know of NO (for profit) magazine that ALREADY had its 'subscriber base' established BEFORE it ever printed its first issue - which was EXACTLY the 'gift' given Mr. Kelly at LDRS 11. And then one wonders why Kelly has made mention in the (recent) past that the magazine was losing money and he might just 'give it back'? Does anybody besides myself wonder at the hypocrisy of 'giving back' something that was stolen?" - John Cato (TRA TMT Chair, responsible for TRA's NFPA recognition)
"Don't let the bastards wear you down Jerry!" -Tom Cloud
"This is just plain SAD - that Mr. Kelly is so enamored with such 'delusions of grandeur' that being involved in a pure volunteer effort for a little 'hobby club' is supposed to, somehow, hold out *more* possibilities than a profession. Sad. *Very* sad." - John Cato
"Since Mr. Kelly's *main purpose* here is to 'build the image' that I am capable of more 'violations' than he is (I've now got TWO 'black marks' to his ONE), we can just forget about *HIS* 'violation' that started this whole thing. One of his *most typical* tactics - when painted into a corner, the classic (and child-like) approach is to say, "Ooooh, look over there!!" (to distract attention from the fact that he got caught with his hand in the 'cookie jar')." - John Cato
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

You know why.

Wrong.
false.
I've never seen any apology to TRA from you on rmr, nor any promise to stop lying about TRA. More importantly, you failed to do so at your TRA hearing.

Some (probably all) of them deserved it.

look
This quote from Cato fits you to a tee, Jerry.
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Prove it. Seriously.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

Who gives a fat rats ass? The information has already been posted to many times.
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On 8 May 2005 21:49:29 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

That should be in the Jerry FAQs.
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

That's funny!
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

This almost makes it sound like the TRA feuds & exclusion-games we hear about here are just the tip of the iceberg... are there perhaps, after all, _many_ who have got some kind of raw deal from TRA... and Jerry is mainly unique in being so persistent about saying something about it?
Scary thought.
-dave w
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David Weinshenker wrote:

I'm curious as to who the individual is, and I've sent an email asking Bob to give me the name. I plan on discussing it with some of the BoD members, to see what's up.
-Kevin
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To what end?
The fact it happened (and so many other things) surrounding "Orem", indicates the only reason to talk about it is to cover it up so the next one does not become public.
Not to correct the underlying problem in TRIPOLI where such inappropriate behaviour is not needed to cover up the many skeletons in the closet.
Jerry
"Heh, heh... But now that you mention it... even though I've been told that you are personally responsible for all misery and pain in this world... ... and even though I've been told that you alone are responsible for all the damned Vegetables and Fruits on my plate (instead of the bratwurst and beer that I so love)... ... and even though I've been told that you are actually the Anti-Christ, and that anyone who converses with you is doomed to suffer in rocket hell... ... I've personally found you to be informative and innovative... a Man that has always stood up for his beliefs and principles....and those of others that SHOULD share your common interests. Of course, for my beliefs... I fully expect to get beaten up at the next NAR launch..."
"My name is Mark... and I stand by that statement."
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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To what end??? Are you serious. For one thing, if the individual was *YOU*, I could understand their decision... I mean really.
--

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com



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Tripoli already obviously knows who the individual is. So questioning whatever policy or decision that was made is independent of identifying the individual on rmr, right?
Has the name of the individula(s) who made the decision been posted? That should come first I do believe.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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wrote:

THere is only one him at TRA HQ and you know it. You also have dreams about him so I'm sure you know his name.
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I thought I was pretty clear about that. The refusal came from the father of the HQ manager. The former BOD member who still occasionally publishes HPR. It was made on the spot during a phone call from the prefect that accepted the membership, so there was no chance for it to be run past the BOD.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972
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On 9 May 2005 12:30:48 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

They have that stuff in a database. Did he happen to mention the reason?
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There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with an organization that has to keep a database of people that aren't allowed to join or renew their memberships.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
"To enslave men, successfully and safely, it is necessary to have their minds occupied with thoughts and aspirations short of the liberty of which they are deprived. A certain degree of attainable good must be kept before them." Frederick Douglas, "My Bondage and My Freedom," 1855
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

Not in the opinion of the TRA BOD!!
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD says...

Why is that? Several (non-rocketry) organizations of which I am a member of have the same thing. Even doctors and lawyers play this way.
--
Tweak

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On Tue, 10 May 2005 08:40:06 -0400, Tweak
Damn, someone comparing TRA to lawyers... The idea that lawyers and TRA do things the same was is somewhat frightening to me.
Mario Perdue NAR #22012 Sr. L2 for email drop the planet
http://roci.indyrockets.org "X-ray-Delta-One, this is Mission Control, two-one-five-six, transmission concluded."
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