[TRA motor certs] USR

Having a hard time posting three names? Lame.

No I do not, but that is there legal status..

Only as for as TRA and NAR are attempting to comply with the law..

My personal opinion: rocket motors in the formulations and configurations used in "all" hobby/HPR rocket motors, produced by the current an past manufactures, including Jerry motors (whom ever made them), are in fact 4.1 flammable solids. While some rocket motors are and should be classified as 1.1 through 1.4 explosive, because of there burn rate and there configuration (primarily military and some sounding rocket solid propellant motors, (Loki as an example), no model/high power rocket motor I am aware of, fits the classification of class

1 explosive hazmat, in any shape or form. As you seem to elude to, the reality of the law is unfortunately what I chose to follow.

my observation?

their agenda is to maintain dominance

all other considerations are secondary, including their mission as stated,

"the advancement [and operation] of amateur high power rocketry"

reference:

- iz

Aren't you confusing "the reality of the law" with the "declarations of the enforcers"?

The law is what stands up in court, not what the fuzz say.

-dave w

this should be in the FAQ

- iz

"She said to please accept Jerry's cash refund offer and to contact him. I explained that no one has received a refund, Jerry does not return email or phone calls etc. I will respect her privacy and not publish her address as I believe she has nothing to do with the shirts. She also told me Jerry owes her money too."

No..

In the end, that is true. I'll leave it to you and others, to press to test...I'll stick with supporting law suits and legislative efforts to change the law...

(simpleton)

Ray, do some research and estimate the time, cost and dependencies of such an undertaking, then talk to us about how practical an option that is

the already existing orgs were created to perform the function of rocketry advocacy

let them do their jobs

- iz

because they don't "want" to

all considerations of responsibility as a rocketry advocacy aside

- iz

IMO the orgs should be extending provisional accomodations to fledgling vendors to help them get established

what a paradigm!

- iz

where are the proxies? what authority did they actually grant (to vote on what and how)? were these "proxies" authenticated?

were the members asked to approve the delegation of their elected representatives authority to an alternate party if the authority granted was non-specific?

do some research, and let us know when you have come answers

- iz

better start a list of questionable "powers" of [some] directors

- iz

For God's sake! Get some sleep man!

Bet cha even with the import of these documents to the corporate record, they were not retained.

Jerry

That's against the rules and the rules cannot be amended without them fitting the club future directions paradigm of codify everything. Kill self-regulation hard.

Jerry

The tighter the grip, the more that slips through your fingers.

Because _I_ live in a country where _innocence_ is presumed until proven guilty. Jerry is still a free man, after all that was attempted by Bruce to get him busted. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt Jerry's word about why exactly he is still a free man.

You appear to be making a futile attempt at saying, "you were never there". But this is the USA, so I refer you again to the previous paragraph.

Can you refute Jerry's claims of that specific statement? If not, then you too, must defer to _innocent_.

Snippet/particle from webster.com:

Main Entry: in·no·cent Pronunciation: 'i-n&-s&nt Function: adjective

1 a : free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil :

~ Duane Phillips.

Hard to have more of an "insider witness" than that.

-dave w

Take a look at this Bob and see what you think??? I could not get the link to work so a cut and paste will have to do.

Fred

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Department of Transportation

Research and Special Programs Administration

Office of the Chief Counsel 400 Seventh St. S.W. Washington, D.C. 20590

AUG 24, 2000

Ref. No. 00-0169

Mr. Kevin D. Sagis President Paragon Astronautics 543 South York Street Denver, Colorado 80209

Dear Mr. Sagis:

This responds to your letter, dated June 10, 2000, requesting clarification of the applicability of the Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR; 49 CFR Parts 171-180) to a non-profit corporation that manufactures and transports various rocket propulsion elements and subsystems for use in education and youth awareness activities.

You state that these rocket propulsion elements and subsystems have been developed for the corporation's "own use" and are not being transported in commerce because they are not "hazardous cargo transported via motor carrier an a commercial trade activity." You also refer us to a July 26, 1994 letter that states that the HMR do not apply to integral parts of a motor vehicle, such as fuel systems and equipment.

Federal hazardous materials transportation law, codified at 49 U.S.C. 5101 et seq., defines

"commerce" to mean "trade or transportation in the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a state or a place outside of the state; or that affects trade or transportation between a place in a state and a place outside of the state." 49 U.S.C. 5102(1). Historically, we have considered commerce to include all private -- that is, non-governmental -- transportation of a hazardous material except for transportation in a personal vehicle for the personal use of an individual.

A corporation is a legal entity, separate from its shareholders or employees. In general, we regard the activities of a corporation to be its "business" regardless of whether the corporation charges fees, either from persons inside or outside the corporation, to finance its activities.

Thus, the fact that your corporation is established as a non-profit entity is not relevant to the determination of whether it performs activities "in commerce." A non-profit corporation may engage in commercial activities to the same extent as a for-profit company. For example, if your corporation offers hazardous materials for transportation to a commercial carrier, then the corporation is offering hazardous materials for transportation "in commerce" and is subject to all applicable requirements of the HMR. Further, if your corporation charges fees to finance its youth awareness programs, then the corporation is performing activities in commerce, and any

transportation of hazardous materials related to those activities, then the corporation is performing activities in commerce, and any transportation of hazardous materials related to those activities is subject to the HMR. In addition, if your corporation employs paid staff to conduct any of its activities, then the corporation is performing activities in commerce, and any transportation of hazardous materials related to those activities is subject to the HMR.

The July 26, 1994 letter you cite is not relevant to your situation. Your rocket propulsion elements and subsystems are being transported as cargo by or on behalf of the corporation. A rocket is not a transportation vehicle until it has been launched. Thus, rocket propulsion elements and subsystems are not integral parts of the transportation vehicle prior to launch of the rocket.

For these reasons, it is the opinion of this office that the HMR apply to your corporation's

activities as an offeror or transporter of hazardous materials.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact this office.

Sincerely,

Edward H. Bonekemper, III Assistant Chief Counsel Hazardous Materials Safety and Research and Technology Law