No, I had the wisdom to never attempt to join the TRA. However, I do
know some "whiners" who were thrown out of the TRA, and you have not
responded with counter examples of TRA whistle blowers who are
I don't know of any actual "whistle blowers", past or present. Just a
few overgrown brats who've spent years throwing hissy fits because TRA
doesn't bow to their will. Like Jerry, who thinks he should be given a
free pass to get his illegal motors certified. Or Bob K, who thinks
that the only way to solve any problem is his way and that any solution
other than his own is a capital crime.
I read and heard the same crap you read now before I joined TRA.
Because of it, I didn't join for at least four years after I joined
NAR. I joined TRA because I was unable to come up with a NAR L3CC
person to work with on my L3 project. I figured if it was as bad as
I'd heard, NAR will recognise my L3 and I could drop my membership.
Once I became a member, I started receiving Tripoli Report (TR) which
is a quarterly internal newletter that tells members what is
happeniing inside the organization. It has minutes from BOD meeting
an editorial from the Prez, and other news items. There is an
election issue that has the resumes of the candiates. After I was a
member for about a year TRA started a private members forum. That has
replaced a lot of tech discussion that used to happen on rmr. Seeing
what is going on from the inside has changed my mind about a lot of
the things I'm seen on rmr. I've continued with TRA because I think
they are instep with what I'm looking for in an organization. Of
course there are things that I think could be improved but, there
doesn't seem to be anything horribly wrong as some would have you
The only whistle blower during my membership was Iz and he wasn't
thrown out. To be honest, I reccomended that he be thrown out on the
private forum. I even quoted the bylaws that allowed him to be. I
have raised a stink about HPR and haven't been thrown out. (does that
make me a whistle blower?) I'm not the only one that has raised a
stink about it. Fixing the HPR problem is the only big thing that
bothers me about TRA. Last year the BOD implemeted a plan to fix it
and I think it will be fixed this year.
The expulsions that happened 10 years ago would have bothered me if
what the 'victims' say is true.
The only person I feel I heard both sides of the story of is Jerry. I
do not have a problem with his suspension. Also he knows what he has
to do to be readmitted and to have his motors (that he doesn't make)
recertified. Also as far as certifing Jerry's motors, he tried to get
NAR to do and they wouldn't either.
I got the details on the case Bob was talking about and it sounds like
if the guy contacts Ken Good and they take care of a few things, he
can get back in. There was a legitimate reason the person was
suspended. I'm not mentioning details because Bob requested it. I am
not getting the info from Kevin which is who Bob asked not to reveal
As I've said before, I don't consider the fact that delay data is not
published to be a problem. Bob Kalow, John Cato, Jerry and others do.
NFPA says test the stuff to be within a certain percentage of stated
value. That is done. If it doesn't pass, the motor doesn't make the
certified list. Also, as you probably know, people can do all kinds
of things to change the delay time. I've seen people get grease on
them, putmasking tape on them, clog the powder hole with grease etc.
I have to wonder what percentage of bonus delays are cause by user
error. Now with more people drilling them, we'll start seeing more
delays that seem to have fired to soon.
This is a perfectly acceptable reason to join the TRA. In many
locals, TRA resources exceed NAR resources. While some rocketeers may
actually prefer the TRA leadership style to the NAR, I do not.
I may have overstated the case when I used the term "whistle blower".
wanted to make the case the Bob is not just some whining malcontent
set on destroying the TRA; rather, he wants the TRA to become a better
organization. I agree that there are reasons to expel a member, but
airing the dirty laundry is not one of them. That said, people and
organizations make mistakes. I just think TRA makes more mistakes
than the NAR.
It may not be problem for you. The NFPA codes provide the minimum
motor testing and certification requirements. I disagree with the TRA
interpretation of making "test results" available. A simple pass fail
listing is inadequate information for safe consumer motor use. I'd
even like to see more complete test results from NAR S&T. The
difference is that available NAR motor certification data is adequate,
and TMT "results" are inadequate for most consumers.
NAR S&T and TMT should not be doing this. They should be testing
motors as provided to consumers by the manufactures. They should be
prep and fire motors as recommended in manufacturers instructions.
This sets a baseline of performance from which consumers can evaluate
any mods or sloppy procedures of their own. This does nothing to
mitigate the need for more complete certification test results.
They do test them. It's pass/fail. If it passes, it is withiin the
NFPA tolerance which IIRC is 20%.
Tell me what you think about this NAR cert data?
Notice it doesn't have what Bob has been complaining about not being
in TMT test results and that it is 11 years old.
I just wanted to point that out. I'm satisfied with pass/fail.
oh, but it has
on many occassions with clear evidence, in a number of ways yet all
revealing a consistent picture
but as I said, you have no use for evidence
either to acknowledge it or to provide it
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