12 volt power source?

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:24:54 +0100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and "Klaus D. Mikkelsen" instead replied:

By definition, those are parts of a regulator and what you describe is a rudimentary one. What these yokels are describing is an IC regulator. The wall cubes often contain far less than an IC.

-- Ray

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:36:22 +1100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Eddie Oliver instead replied:

There are many forms of regulation, Eddie. What these folk seem to be using as a qualifier is an IC regulator rather than the more basic forms. If it doesn't have a 78xx, it's not a regulator according to them. In the real world, regulators are much simpler. Especially those in wall cubes.

-- Ray

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:35:24 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Greg Procter instead replied:

And none of them will define the output voltage at 13.8 volts. That's the recommended charge voltage, not the battery nominal voltage. My sources are indeed right and if you found any that stated a battery is 13.8 volts, they'd be dead wrong.

-- Ray

I haven't read it that way. I have interpreted them to be saying that there is nothing - whether IC or otherwise - to control the voltage to a narrow range, i.e. nominal voltage +/- some very small deviation, e.g.

110V +- 2V or 12.0V +- 0.2V. Are you saying that there is something, and if so, what?

On 12/22/2007 2:50 PM Eddie Oliver spake thus:

Well, he seems to be saying, judging from his most recent reply to me, that a simple series resistor will do it.

Uhn uh. No way.

On 12/22/2007 1:59 PM Ray Haddad spake thus:

You're just plain wrong. An xfmr, rectifier (and optionally a capacitor) make up an UNREGULATED power supply. Any 15-year-old kid who's studied electronics knows that.

You're just being annoying. And of course, you'll never admit you're wrong.

Ozzies running with a few dead cells, eh?

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Am I the OHMly one that doesn't have AMPle knowledge of WATT this is all about?

Bill

Damn,... I'm sure glad I didn't ask about DC vs DCC

Carter

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That Hertz!

Yes Klaus, the _operating range of a 12 volt lead acid battery is up to

13.8 volts - that's the maximum voltage it will hold. _Nominal_ voltage is 12 volts, but a newly charged battery will supply 13.8 volts (13.6-13.8 volts) to a model railway. That's how it has been since 12 volt car batteries have been fitted to automobiles.

"nominal voltage" is what the layout will normally see, but any voltage sensitive equipment will initially see 13.8 volts. Any layout operated by a small battery charger charging a car battery, as was quite often used when HO models were standardized, will provide

13.8 volts to the layout.

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Am I the OHMly one that doesn't have AMPle knowledge of WATT this is about?

Bill

What you are describing is known as a *filtered* power supply, not a

*regulated* power supply. A regulated power supply requires the use of some active components such as transistors or ICs. Power supplies using only passive components such as transformers, resistors, capacitors and diodes (including Zener diodes) do not constitute regulated power supplies.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:32:42 GMT, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Rick Jones instead replied:

Those wall warts are not ALWAYS regulated. Show me where I ever stated that ALL of them were? Just because you cut a few open and found something else doesn't make you correct in this thread. You have all diverged away into areas where you can be right and strayed away from my original statement.

Very childish. But I expect no less from some of the morons here.

-- Ray

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:50:19 +1100, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Eddie Oliver instead replied:

As I have stated from the very start, the 13.8 volt supplies are chargers, not power supplies. I also stated that SOME, not ALL of the wall transformers contain regulated power supplies inside them. Now along come the two biggest morons on earth who both claim that NONE of them have regulators and it's suddenly my job to prove them wrong. Ask David and Greg for their proof. Get back to me if you get it in your lifetime.

-- Ray

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:11:30 -0800, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and David Nebenzahl instead replied:

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I stated very clearly that even a series resistor is a rudimentary form of regulation. In fact, a series resistor and a Zener diode are all that is required for basic regulation.

You are more ignorant than I gave you credit for. Press on, lad.

-- Ray

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:24:22 +1300, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and Greg Procter instead replied:

Take remedial reading.

Greg. Both of those articles agree with me. A 12 volt battery has a nominal voltage of 12 volts. Not 13.8 volts. A charger is recommended at a minimum of 10% over which happens to be 13.2 volts so their recommendation of 15% over is well within my minimum.

-- Ray

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This whole thing is getting very reVOLTing.

Bill

Perhaps, Ray, you would advance your argument by defining what exactly you mean by 'regulation' (as distinct from filtering or limiting) and state exactly how a resistor and zener diode achieve this.