"Fisty Nickle" wrote in news:_hDlc.526$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.southeast.rr.com:
A layout doesn't have to be in a magazine to be good, but pictures of good layouts in the magazines can inspire the rest of us to do better and raise the standards of the hobby. That is precisely what John Armstrong's Gorre and Daphetid did in the
60's. And, don't forget Whit Towers' Alturas and Lone Pine.
It was John Allen's Gorre & Daphetid.
This isn't necessarily true.
Maybe true, but also not exclusively so.
Well, yes...and no.
No, I think Mark is having a bit of fun at your expense, as I am having at his...
He is well within his rights to create something for his enjoyment, and whether or not we agree is not germane to his satisfaction. Could be a case that he has nothing to prove. He might even be satisfied enough to ignore all those spam messages we all get...
As aan illustration: I had the opportunity to visit a nearby layout a while back. To put it bluntly, at first sight it was a bit coarse. If you saw pictures of it in a magazine, you would wonder how they chose it...if you saw it on a web site, you would reach for the screen cleaner.
After a while talking to the owner and comparing it to the prototype, and then having an opprtunity to operate the layout, the "picture" became clearer...he had used his limited time and resources to create a beautiful miniature representation of the prototype, with all of the features necessariy to have a complete understanding of what it was all about, and a real sense of why the prototype was built and what it needed to achive it's daily operation.
So, the most photogenic layout on the Seven Continents may not be the best by any means, while a layout that might give you nightmares at first glance may be the best you've ever experienced.
You never know.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled hemispherical bashing.
Jeff Sc. Soap Box, Ga.
Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
Yes! G&D rocks! Johnny Allen is da Man!
Jim
On 04 May 2004 at 09:19:42 +1000 Mark posted:
Which looks a lot like an open invitation. I'm just trying to take him up on it. My wife's cohorts would love to "come and visit". Surely Mark can find some time in August or September to entertain some visitors for a few hours. The trip is still in the planning stages so they can pretty much book around Mark's schedule ... if he'd let us know what it is in the next few days.
I believe they will be in Australia again in Jan 05 as well.
Paul
Thanks, Jeff, for a more balanced view on the hobby than I have read in this group for some time.
Paul wrote: "> I believe they will be in Australia again in Jan 05 as well.
When planning to visit Australia I am told that a posting on the aus.rail.models newsgroup will generally lead to invitations to visit home layouts in Aus.
Werris
listed on Amazon.com at $299 (hardback version). So what is this softback version worth?
Whoa! Is that American dollars?? Think I paid all of $15 for the softcover version. It's a great book but I'm not sure it's worth more than $25.
I think the Gorre and Daphetid is one of the classic layouts. Aye. Gene ABV61-1043.001.HCB
Brian Paul Ehni wrote in news:BCBDBD6C.7CDD% snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net:
My bad! You are right! John Allen, not John Armstrong. I guess that I was just reading Armstrong's classic _Track Planning for Realistic Operation_ and had that on what is left of my mind.
"Woodard R. Springstube" wrote in news:Xns94DFDB7051171springstjumpnet@64.245.249.102:
ERRATA: John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid, as another poster has pointed out. I don't mind getting old, but I damned sure to miss my mind! ;-)
18-0
So far Will has been proven wrong. It's not 99%; it's 100%!
Just a note about the impact this layout has had over the years, consider this. George Sellios had an Engine House and Gorre Station kit that was duplicated from the Gorre & Daphetid. On his layout right now is that Stone Roundhouse in honor of John and also an underground passenger station. He claims this was inspirer by John's Subway that could be viewed through glass windows. Then of course there are countless other modelers including John Olson. Then if you haven't already seen what I did, go to my home page and find the link Gorre & Daphetid at
snipped-for-privacy@mb-m24.aol.com,
snipped-for-privacy@mb-m24.aol.com,
No, Brian it is 99% as Mr. Newton voted against it.
Get a new battery for your calculator, 18 of 19 would be just under 95%. (94.736842105263157894736842105263%)
Paul
You should know by now where I stand on this issue. But for the record, no.
I might also observe that, contrary to the assertions of the moose rooter from the frozen north, 16 "yes" votes does not constitute 99% of model railroaders.
What profound insights into human nature! With whom did you "study"? Dr Phil? Jerry Springer? If your assertions were correct, every active modeller would have a web-site, solicit coverage in magazine articles, and the like. And yet that is plainly not the case. Many of the regular posters here have no website, or if they have, they choose not to promote it. There are a great many layouts that are only seen by their builder, or their immediate family. Of the nine people who comprise my round-robin group, not one has a website, and only one has ever had her work featured in a magazine. You North Americans may be rabid self-promoters, but it is evident that you have no understanding of, or insight into Australians. Your pronouncements on human nature are 100% worthless.
Further proof that you haven't a clue. "Young", indeed!
There are many things I have created that I am truly proud of - whether the world knows about them or not is of no consequence to me. I am satisifed by my own efforts, not the acclamation of strangers. You apparently seek validation and approval from others - don't make the mistake of thinking that everybody else does.
They sure are. With modern computers I bet the maintenance would be cut 75% and they'd be cheaper to run than those powered boxcars. Gene ABV61-1043.001.HCB
On Thu, 6 May 2004 02:45:52 UTC, Brian Paul Ehni wrote: 2000
Allow me to change the numbers. Make it whatever to 1.
The G&D was a marvel for its day. It broke new ground. It was an artistic achievement. It was and still is inspiring. It was a caricature. I have spoken with a couple of people who actually operated on it. It was not a very good operating layout. Before someone says "show us your layout" I will say now that my layout consists of three modules, as flat as a table saw table. Had I the skill to do scenery I would still have the Plywood Pacific since my interest is in switching, not scenery. Mine is also a caricature. That does not invalidate my opinion.
I started in model railroading while John Allen was alive. I looked at and enjoyed all the photos of the G&D. He pioneered a lot of stuff but even then it was a caricature. When I started in railroading I lived in Studio City, CA. The hobby shop I spent much time at was frequented by modelers who worked in the movie industry. They used the skills they had acquired creating movie scenery to enhance the hobby. It was there that I ran into swaybacked cars and weathering that would be considered first-rate today.
Dream on Gene. Not so. If you burned oil in them the fuel cost would still be exorbitant and if you burned coal the operating costs would soar out of sight. There is no way to make a steam locomotive as maintainable as a diesel-electric. Computer or no computer. Remember, computers can be applied to both to reduce construction and operating cost
For all their expense, diesels are now, and will remain for the foreseeable future, a better, more economical form of railway motive power than any type of steam. Even if you were to see steam make an attempt to return to the rails you most definitely would NOT see anything that even vaguely resembled a Lima Berkshire or an Alco Challenger. So then, what's the point? A steam-electric or a steam-mechanical locomotive would, in the end, look much the same as an SD90MAC, perhaps with a full width cowl. wishing for the return of steam is like wishing for the return of sail on the high seas mate. It just ain't gonna happen
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