1.) how and why are ShockieB's comments innappropriate?
2.) in light of what would appear to be a deeply unfair political deal,
what would you suggest should be done?
In light of both ShockieB's story, and the few I could find via Google,
I think that ShockieB's reaction sounds about right:
A.) Pushy Soccer group (throwing neighbors out for playing soccer at
unscheduled times; 8 soccer fields needed in 1 location???)
B.) the original field (from the photos I've seen) is good for gliders
and rocketry. the farm being mentioned sounds like a marsh.
C.) a politician (who sounds somewhat slimy - I checked his web page)
going on about "win-win-win." How do the rocketry clubs, the soaring
clubs, and the local neighbors win?
Bob (cranky inventor who tends to dislike soccer moms for their
demonstrated inability to follow rules when it constrains them.)
So, what you're saying is that it's okay to advocate the death of
someone because they've done something we don't like?
Calling them out for requesting unfair treatment? No problem. Saying
they need to play by the rules? Wholly appropriate.
Saying they "must die"? Wholly INappropriate.
Lots of things, including writing to the local media, sending letters of
protest to politicians, etc.
Advocating the death of someone, which has some rather nasty
implications? Wholly inappropriate.
Next, will be be advocating the death of people in the hobby whose
behavior we don't like? Where will it end?
Personally, I wouldn't publicly advocate the death of someone.
Working with an executive like Ron Sims - or at least who he presents
himself - would literally be a waste of time.
Instead, I'd be inclined towards enlightened cattiness...
-I'd explain the conduct of the town to every person I had a positive
social contact with, explaining that I'd be taking my business
elsewhere, and not returning until there was a gliding/launch at least
as good as the "swapped" one.
-I'd get a list of the proponents of the swap, and strongly suggest that
no one I know deal with them in any capacity other than absolute life or
death. (as an added piece: -I'm a Teacher of Special Needs- I'd recuse
myself from any dealings with those students involved, and I'd recommend
no teacher I know work with those families. I might suggest that any
teachers in the county take the early retirement. 30% of all teachers
are eligible for retirement nationwide, so it's worth a shot.)
-(assuming that friend ShockieB's comment is universal, and that the
proponents are all female): I'd let everyone in my social network know
how these "perhaps unstable, surely misguided, definitely short sighted"
women ruined two groups, and apparently against at least some of the
local neighbor's wishes. The idea is to make said women's chances of
finding a date in the area approach zero. If she's married, shun her
husband. If she's dating, shun him/her.
Unfortunately, these tactics are hard to do when in a minority.
Luckily, I don't have to worry about soccer moms interfering with my
launches... I'm buyign a boat and a barge.
Bob (who would never consider working socially with
yesterday I wan't in the mood to get into a pissing contest with you ( I was
mellowed out watching NFL football) but today I am.. comments inline.
as opposed to your adult pedantic response?
The only lack of tolerance I have as far as opinions that I disagree with,
was your earlier attempt to say that G.Harry Stine was a hypocrite becuase
he once may have done AR/EX prior to his Rock-A-Chute days..... In your
world, I guess a person who chnages their mind due to new information or
some ephipany, they are a hypocrite if they change their minds about
something. Is it possible that G.Harry even when he was doing AR/EX had some
safety issues with it? And of course, both G.Harry and Orv, when making the
hand packed Bp Rock-A-Chutes were doing AR/EX.. For you history buffs I
might add that Vern Estes produced the first "machine" made motors on his
Mabel-1 in January 1959. SO from that date on Orv and G.Harry had no need to
hand make rock-a-chutes anymore. Also G.Harry and Orv had the hand-made
rock-a-chutes tested and okay as toy propellant devices in early to mid
Its sorta like JI among others that say that both G.Harry and Orv Carlisle
purchased George James book , and therefore he is the "father of model
rocketry".. If you did any research into the past you will see that for a
long time , the term model rocket ALSO was applied to amateur rockets.....
so when George James uses the words model rocket plane, he means MODEL
rocketplane not MODEL ROCKET plane.. and also MODEL rocketplanes have a
history that dates back to at least 1908 where in germany they would use sky
rocket BP motors to boost MODEL rocket planes into the air. Now nobody today
would ever consider these MODEL ROCKET planes. Nobody would consider these
boost gliders. and nobody would consider sky rocket engines model rocket
motors, even if used in a model rocket. ( G.Harry did try this once by the
way....)Thats why G.Harry originally called the NAR Model Missiles ASN and
his company Model Missiles, and NOT Model Rockets as model rockets were
asscoiated with amateur rocketry.
Did you know that the people who originally founded the ARS were AR/EX
people? But as they became a commercial entity they changed their minds and
the ARS was the leading proponent against AR/EX. And who was the ARS: the
leading professionl rocketry people and companies of the day. Werner von
Braun was a member of the ARS wen they started to demonize AR. G.Harry was
also a member of the ARS at this time. In the beginning, WVB was doing
AR/EX.... Did you know the ARS became the AIAA in 1963? Do you even know who
or what the AIAA is? DId you know that it wasn't until the mid to late 60's
that the AIAA finally gave model rocketry a thumbs up? SO they just didn't
object to Ar they also objected to model rocketry in its first 10 years...
and they represent professional rocketry people... I guess they are all
One thing I have learned in my research into the past of model rocketry, is
that people reacted to G.Harry in one of two ways: either they loved him or
they hated him. There was no middle ground. Theres no doubt that he started
MMI and the MMA for economic self-interests. But would any of us have done
differently. I would submit that most of us are motivated by economic
self-interest. Theres also no doubt that G.Harry was a shameless
self-promoter for G.Harry Stine. I would submit that he had valid reasons
for doing so.... remember folks, there might not be any model rocketry or
hpr today, if G.Harry hadn't been a "personality" that knew important
people by name and could goto the top, if necessary to get things done.
when I first got back into rocketry 3-4 years ago, I had a problem with both
AR and HPR. I will admit, I thought really bad of both... I just dodn't "get
it". Wll over the past 3-4 years, talking with people here and in person has
allowed me to become educated, and so now I'm all for HPR and AR/EX. SO
since I received new information and changed my pov about AR/EX/HPR does
that make me a hypocrite? Or does that make me a human being who after
receiving new information, I adjusted my pov appropriately?
I have never attempted to portay myself as "some sort of hero" for the
Alot of my views run completelty contarty to established NAR/TRA policy.
...and he didn't like you one bit!
so the choice is G.Harry as a hypocrite or JI as a intentional thief/serial
liar and cheat?
and you're just, well, a TOOL...trying to forward your agenda.
This is typical of any field that exists - you are at the mercy of its
I fly model sailplanes as well. Finding a place to fly the big ones out to
their full potential is very difficult, just like rockets. I just hate when
the large fields out in the boonies are grabbed when the smaller fields in
populated areas are ignored. You can play soccer right next to a highway in
the center of a town. Rockets and airplanes do not share the same ability.
Demographics and perception are against us. Who is going to deny thousands
of kids a field in favor of a bunch of old guys flying airplanes or rockets.
<humor>Too bad we're mostly white males <end humor>. It seems like a tasty
monetary compensation to boot.
Maybe the recourse is to find a better field for the soccer players and make
it sound more attractive than this field. It is business after all and if
you do not counter-propose, there is nothing to compare the original deal
BTW, I do not wish anyone dead, but <joke in bad taste>soccer should go
back to Europe. In the US, footballs have points at either end.<end joke in
My humble opinions and sarcasm.
"still looking for that model airport"
Hardly in bad taste at all. I would submit that soccer is a yuppie
game forced on the kids by their politically correct parents. As
evidence I offer the behavior of American kids. When left to make
their own choices, how many of them will start a pick-up soccer game?
I see plenty of them tossing a football or a baseball, and right
outside my home at this very minute the local kids are shooting some
hoops. They skateboard, ride bikes, sled, play tennis, play street
hockey, and play video games. Some of them even fly rockets. But I
have yet to see the neighbor kids start a soccer game.
"Don't overestimate the decency of the human race."
H. L. Mencken
HaHa, nice cliche.
I will call you clueless then.
American football sux. I'll watch a kids soccer game long before I'll
turn to the nfl.......what a joke.
And when the World Cup rolls around, well hell, it's nirvana. BTW,
there are pickup soccer games every night of the week around here, and
now pickup Lax games-the too damn cool game.......face it. Stay high
and mighty and you'll continue to be refused and looked at as...well the
way you should. Those with half a brain have no problem finding spaces.
But it seems the same people always have the same problem. Why might
I've watched some of the riots that follow soccer matches around the
world so I choose to remain clueless. I can understand it though, if I
had to watch an entire soccer game I'd be ready to kill someone too.
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