Union Pacific not a scrooge

You know, I was just over on ABPR and somebody posted a picture of a patched SP switcher unit. That thing was so covered in graffiti that the entire hood side was white with the stuff.

If UP was really concerned about image, they need to get out there and start cleaning up their locomotives. Those are the things that people see when they're out and about, not necessarily an el-cheapo HO scale boxcar by whomever sitting on a shelf somewhere as a shelf-warmer.

Seems to me that image is more than just licensing your logo onto products and collectables. Those are aimed at us, the modeller and railfan. The public also sees a UP boxcar going across a grade crossing, completely covered with graffiti, while the next car is relatively clean. What message would that send?

Kennedy

At some point in time, there has to be a decision made that you're going to have to cut back on costs and spending somewhere. The average household has $12,000 worth of credit card debt. We're constantly asked to spend, spend, spend our way out of whatever recession we happen to be in.

Sure we have those payments you cite. But, for Model RR, that is not considered "necessary" spending. As in, it has priority over food, utilities, home and car. When those costs begin to equal income, discretionary spending should be the first to go.

If SWMBO comes to you and says "We should go out for a nice dinner next weekend.", the reply "Sorry, the UP just cost me an extra few bucks on that $100 loco I just bought and I can't afford it." surely isn't going to fly....

I don't have unlimited income, I haven't hit the MEga lottery, and while I'm single with no kids and have a good job, I'm still a cheap bastard at heart. Can I afford the extra $5 for the UP licensing on a loco? Sure. Do I *WANT* to pay that extra money? Of course not. That's just the way it is.

Kennedy

I've seen patched SP tunnel motors that are so tagged with graffiti on their long hoods that you can't even SEE the words SOUTHERN PACIFIC (presuming they haven't been worn off). Yet, those units are plying around the country, exposed to all of the public as they're fuming at grade crossings.

If somebody got in and tagged UP 3985, how long do you think that will last? Not long.

Somebody told me that if a newly painted loco was moved into the West Colton yard, it will not last the night; somebody will have tagged it by morning. For a company that's interested in image, that sure seems to be a big hole in that philosophy. I don't see BNSF or CSX or NS locos similarly tagged. Nor do they seem to be as dirty as the UP locos; somebody wondered if UP even owned a wash rack....

:D

Kennedy

Doesn't say much security. I have heard, mostly on this group, about the treatment of railfans and photographers around railyards, yet it appears if you bring a spray can (or a bag full) you aren't noticed.

John H.

I have never stated that UP should be the owners of the fallen flags. I have stated that is up to the courts. If they decide in UPs favor, of course they have the right. I personally don't care about the fallen flags issue even though I model some of them

Jerry

As I have said the courts will decide the fallen flag issue. As for you obvious slam of O gauge Lionel etc, some of the scale sized item they put out are very well detailed, able to stand up to your "model" items anyday. Pretty expensive toys at a grand a pop I might add. I have heard the argument for years but I still have my own opinion. If it is a train and you can hold in your hand, it is a toy, period. End of subject

Jerry

Jerry

That last comment of yours makes model railroading sound like a poor man's hobby. I guess it might be for you if you are buying Tycos. Not that it is a concern of yours but I really have not fear of my job. I retire June 1, and have managed to be able to put back a nice nest egg which will maintain my lifestyle for the rest of my time. I was never overly worried about a job, I am educated and so is my wife, whom own her own business and does better than me. I am glad you have found your niche in life. Be happy with it

Jerry

Well, unless you inherited it, you did work at something to have everything paid off. We have about the idea. My cars are leased, my home pays off in May and although I have credit card, they are paid in full each month. Using them does allow us to get free miles on airlines and we have taken some nice trips at no cost for air fare. So we are not that different, except when you were a hippie I was in the service, just the opposite.

Jerry

These locos will eventually be repainted or retired. Perhaps this is an indication that more railroad police are needed. Maybe that is where the 4% you pay could help the image

Jerry

My statement that inflamed everyone was that you will pay it. not that you wanted too.

Jerry

I understand you feel that way, and I hope you understand I don't care

Jerry

You are right it was promotion and corporate relations but railfans loved it. I have my own little nest of expertise.

Jerry

UP 3985 is so well protected I doubt it could be tagged as you put it. But if it was you are right, it would be cleaned off immediately.

Jerry

"Jerry"

Less (heavy) taxes.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

I thank you for the wishes, and yes, we are happy.

My comment regarding model railroads in your life was based on the understanding that you have a active, busy, "type A" personnality. Nothing to do with money.

I realize some people are "type A" in business and very different away. I do hope you don't drive the Beamer and Mercedes the way most do. They seem to be signatures for "Type A".

As for the UP issue.......legally.....what the courts determine will prevail, but I hope for UP's sake that they are shot down. The eventual fallout may be far worse than they can conceive, if they "win". Whoever said "any publicity is good publicity" was a fool. I wonder how many shipping managers will decide to ship by truck, instead of UP, for ear of offending a customer who might be a modeler.

I, personally don't have a stake, as I model a fictional place and no prototype.

John H

You are missing the fact that -- just because your sales are below the threshold for paying a royalty, that does not automatically give you a license to use their logo!

How can you claim "when they find out I wasn't lying" .. "finds he out he wasn't lying after all" in your scenario? Lying about what?

Can you elaborate what you mean?

If they take you to court, it WON'T be over your books. It WILL be over the products you produced using their trademark.

If you are willfully using a trademark without permission, and a company (U.P. in this case) decides to put the thumbscrews down on you, they WON'T be hitting you up for your missed royalty payments, and you WON'T be making any more U.P. models -- the courts will make sure of that.

HEY! Isn't the "any publicity is good publicity" one of the arguments put forth by those who think that model railroaders shouldn't have to pay a U.P. trademark license fee?

This is true to my recollection. You have said "UP's trademarks", but that left the whole fallen flag in the fuzzy zone. Kind of a "did he mean them or not" thing.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

Nor could you probably do anything about it if you did. It's the lawyers that could, and they don't care. They're too busy justifying their existence.

I understand completely. I'm just a little honked off.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"