New Chick CNC Vise

Exactly how did you evaluate these programs Jon?

Jon:

You seem to want to chat about vises some more. OK, we can do that.

Have you visited their factory and actually seen that ALL the machining operations are done in the US? If not, then how can you be positive that some parts, or machining operations, aren't outsourced to other countries such as China, Mexico, or the Philippines? Maybe they're made 100% here, and maybe they're not. I don't know, and I doubt if you do either, no matter what their advertising or salesmen might say.

Kurt covers their lead screw with a piece of sheet metal. Chick could very well have a better method, I don't know, I haven't seen one up close and personal. But we don't have any problem with chips jamming in the lead screw of our Kurts.

I haven't noticed that. And we have some Kurts that been in use for over a decade. And if it moved .001, we'd notice pretty quick with the kind of work we do.

Vises, we're talking vises here, please stay focused. Besides, I haven't seen much indication that you're very fluent with Gibbs in any case... so your opinions about Gibbs have never carried much weight with me. Didn't you yourself post that you don't know how to use Gibbs' Solid Surfacer?

Not sure what relevance my wages have to do with the advantages you think the Chick vise has. But it's not a secret or anything, I make $23/hr. That's a little above average in this area, for the kind of work I do. I didn't become a machinist for the wages. There are plenty of other occupations that pay better. Anesthesiologists $70/hr., Dentists $63/hr., Pharmacists $50/hr. etc. etc.

What does all that have to do with vises? But to reply... Didn't you say that you work in a small machine shop within a very large company that has branches all over? Is that wrong? Did I misunderstand you?

And as far as being too lazy to drive 3-5 hours ONE WAY to show up at your shop... I probably wouldn't bother to show up at your shop if you worked 2 miles away. Just kidding... mostly. LOL

Like I said before, we're a 'for-profit' job shop and purchase tooling if it will benefit the bottom line. That's one reason I started playing 'devils advocate' with you concerning the Chick vise.

Some of my concerns with the Chick vise follow.

1. I notice the "saw tooth" sides are open. On some jobs our vises become covered in chips as the job progresses. The chips get into the hollow area of the handle end of the Kurts. The chips don't cause harm, just have to blow them out when the job is done. The open "saw tooth" area of the Chick seems like it would be a chip 'magnet', and appears like it would be a pain to blow out the chips from the hollow area and from around the slide push buttons. Would any chips interfere with the ratcheting mechanism? The pictures on their website don't show just how the mechanism actually works.
2. Also, it's not clear how the jaws are held on the vise. I notice a machined pocket in the back of the jaw with an undercut, which I assume is caught & held in some manner by a mechanism operated by the screw on top of the jaw support. Can you clarify just how that works?
3. It seems to me that if you were making more soft jaws for this vise that you'd have to get a custom dovetail tool to machine that undercut pocket - OR - buy any soft jaws from Chick ($$$) especially if you wanted long or tall jaws - OR - use the tapped jaw adapter which would cancel out the advantage of having a quick release jaw system since in the first place since you'd have to screw them to the adapter like a normal jaw to a Kurt. Also you'd have an EXTRA surface to worry about keeping square, clean, and chip free.
4. The one top jaw-holding screw uses a 6mm wrench (smaller than

1/4"), as compared to a 3/8" wrench for two 1/2-13 bolts on a normal jaw. So it would appear that the retaining strength/power of the jaw holding mechanism is less than that of two bolts in a normal jaw. Which might adversely affect the holding strength when using long jaws or real tall jaws.

1. The immovable jaw support looks like it's held down by two screws near the far back of the vise, as opposed to the Kurt's immovable jaw support being held down close to where the jaw itself attaches. That seems like it would make the Chick more prone to a lifting moment (leverage), especially if you were using a lot of pressure to clamp something or using tall jaws. (This is on the older Kurt's not the newer one-piece body construction of the "PT Series" or "3600 Series" that Garlic Dude was speaking about). If I were testing the Chick, I'd put a block in the top part of the vise jaw, tighten it REAL good, and see if I could sick a feeler gage between the jaw and the immovable support, and between the immovable support and the base.

Taking these few things into consideration the Chick "appears" to be a weaker design, and a harder to clean vise than the basic Kurt vise. IMO, it'd probably be a fine light duty vise when used in a relatively clean environment - if a little pricey for that application.

Did you guys order one or more of these puppies? If so, I'd like to hear an honest evaluation of them after you've had a chance to use it for a couple of months.

I'm the only one that uses VX cam here. It works quite well for what I need it for. And, the whole Cad/Cam system cost us $2k :)

That I'll disagree with. Is it as easy to use as say Mastercam? Nope. Takes some time to be productive, but once you learn the quirks, it's quite powerful. It could also be VERY productive on prototype, production, and families of parts.

You won't make the time to drive an hour and a 1/2 to see how wrong your bullshit assertions are and yet you want me to tour Chick's factory.

ROTFLMFAO

There are lots of things you don't know. That's what happens when you get lazy and stay in one shop for what 10 years or more now?

They do. It's obvious that they do by looking at the vise but you seem too lazy to even do that.

...because as per usual you're too lazy to make the effort.

We do. The lead screw is exposed on most of our Kurt's.

I have. Mount a piece and put some pressure on it and watch the dial indicator move.

John Carroll's work....

ROTFLMFAO.

No wonder you work for "coolie wages".

Gibbs Solid Surfacer is crap. I tried it and it was pure garbage. You're opinion on CADCAM carries no weight with me because you have a long proven track record of being too lazy to learn another system. You gave up on Mastercam after a few tutorials and you gave up on SolidWorks. All you can use is Gibbscam!

I never said we have "branches all over" but this is too be expected from someone as lazy as you who surrounds themselves with drunks and religious idiots.

Nope. It's the one thing you got right in this thread.

Your a for very little profit shop. You do John Carroll's work because your boss doesn=92t know how to get high paying work.

Wrong again. That's not all it's held by.

You make conclusions based on nonsense and you've become an expert in this area.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Attaboy BB.....just keep pokin the rabid lil chihuahua in the ribs with a stick. Watch him turn on ya now. :) Yip Yip !!

Barn

"Attaboy BB.....just keep pokin the rabid lil chihuahua in the ribs with a stick. Watch him turn on ya now. :) Yip Yip !!"

LOL Hey Barn, does your reply to adress work? Got sumpin' fer ya'.

J

Yea ..... send away.

Barn

"Yea ..... send away."

Done.

J

Got it......Cool....just DAMN COOL.!!! Has the "lil chihuahua" seen this or do you think it would just make his tiny lil brain explode? :)

Barn

Barn:

Turn on me? Why ever would he do that, I'm just debating the pros & cons of Chick and Kurt vises.

Now Now. Can't have this stuff circulating. It isn't really Blob worthy anyway.

JC

You didn't have even *one* counterpoint to ANY of Bob's points? He picked your miracle vise apart, and all you did was show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

When was the last time you bought a Kurt vise that DIDN'T include a chip guard for the lead screw? Oh that's right, YOU haven't ever purchased one.

Oh, you also forgot to answer my question: How many Makino horizontals are in YOUR shop?

Jon, please explain bandqueer-energizer-dummy math for drive time calculations.

322 mile round trip is 1-1/2 hour drive time in babble-on-jon-land?

Saugus (BottleBob) to Chula Vista (Jon Banqueer) is a 322 mile round trip.

BottleBob did give you hint when he said in this thread it's a 3-5 hour drive ONE WAY for him. Of course unlike you Bob was thinking, he was taking into account driving I5 through LA, Orange and San Diego Counties. Depending upon time of day, realistic expectation of drive time would be 3-5 hours ONE WAY, unless he drove rush hour then it could be even longer.

Tom

Rob, our youngest son is making more as a setup man down the road from here in Vancouver, Wa. where they are running 4 mori and 6 fadal mill...he will be all of 23 years old next August.

Jon:

No, I don't WANT you to tour Chick's factory. I asked you if you were POSITIVE that no part of Chick vises were manufactured in China. You replied "Yep", indicating that you WERE POSITIVE. I then logically pointed out that you COULDN'T know that no part of the Chick vise manufacturing WASN'T outsourced to China (or other foreign countries), without actually checking to see that ALL manufacturing processes were done in the US. More concisely, you haven't proved that Chicks are 100% US made. It's just your unsupported OPINION, that they are 100% US made. Do you understand the progression, now that I've spelled it out in excruciating detail for you, eh?

Heck, even parts of the Kurt vises "might" be outsourced to other countries.

Now as far as how l ================================================================== Driving directions to San Diego, CA from Saugus, CA

152 mi ? about 2 hours 32 mins (up to 4 hours 30 mins in traffic) ==================================================================

So that comes out to roughly a 5 to 9 hour round trip drive.

So your estimate of 1 1/2 hours is incorrect. To reiterate my earlier facetious comment, why would I want to drive 5-9 hours to see a machine shop? Take some pictures and post them if you want people to see where you work.

doubt you know either.

I think we've had this discussion of the pros & cons of stability vs. job hopping a number of times before. Everyone doesn't necessarily share the same viewpoint on this issue.

I looked at the vise on the Chick site, the base is solid across the top but the sides are open. Don't you remember my comment that it looks like a "chip magnet".

The Chick site and your comments haven't convinced me that its something worth looking at for the kind of work we do.

The more modern Kurt 675's and 688's have their screws covered.

I believe you, if you say your older vises move. Mechanical things wear out, especially if they're been abused. What would be a more fair comparison is to put your indicator on the new Chick and then on a NEW Kurt.

What's he got to do with this vise discussion?

I wish he could post the two parts he just finished, they are about the coolest parts I've seen in years.

I've made friends where I am, it's like a sort of extended family. I'm going to miss them.

Actually, Solid Surfacer is very intuitive and easy to use. I wonder how much of your displeasure with it was strictly program based, and how much was a bleeding over of your vendetta against Bill Gibbs himself.

I bought the MasterCam book and training disc to familiarize myself with it to see if it was possibly an easier, better, and faster program than Gibbs. But my conclusion was that it wasn't. It was very non-intuitive and klunky (I believe that was the term I used at the time). I'm sure MasterCam has improved in the intervening years, but so has Gibbs.

I studied SolidWorks partially on a lark and partially to compare it to AutoCad that I had used before. It pretty much blew away Autocad. But we don't do CAD design work so I just stopped putting more effort into it as my interests for other things took precedence.

I thought you said you worked in one division of a multi-division company. If I got that part wrong then I apologize.

What? That I wouldn't bother visiting you even if you were only 2 miles away? :)

A shop we sometimes give work to, just went under. Another shop around the corner is having serious trouble. A sister shop a couple of blocks away that does the same type of work we do, went under last year. ADI (Big aerospace company 2 blocks away just laid off 40 machinists. But we're busy. Go figure.

I said that's what it "looks like". So how else is it held?

I've based my tentative conclusions on Chick's incomplete website and your own comments. BTW, you didn't answer my questions:

How does the ratcheting mechanism work?

How is the immovable jaw support held to the base, and what absorbs the closing pressure - key? pins? bolts?

How are the jaws held on?

Is the screw protected from chips coming through the open sides?

BPB:

More power to him. Are they hiring? LOL

Who in their right mind would drive *anywhere* at all to see a not-for- profit job shop with a bunch of worn out Haas verticals?

Jon, how much does the vise weigh?

Jon-The-Donk wisdom:

If your Poorly Maintained POS Machines can't hold tolerance go out and buy expensive precision vises for them......LOL.