New Chick CNC Vise

D Murphy wrote:

oxymoron
--
Black Dragon

"Are pirates an ethnic group? Or are they just people who burn
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On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:07:32 +0000 (UTC), Black Dragon

LOL
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Heh. I do that a lot for some reason. Maybe I need a new one?
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Dan

CNC Videos - <http://tinyurl.com/yzdt6d
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On Nov 26, 6:02 am, snipped-for-privacy@rise.zzn.com wrote:

Sounds like you may be over tightening your vises. They state 85fl/lbs or so as the max torque, but the regular Kurt vise generates tremendous clamping force with very little torque applied. You shouldn't need more than a speed handle for tightening and breaking loose.
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wrote:

iirc, kurt provides a chart of clamping force -- here's one: http://kurtworkholding.com/downloads/pdf/D688%20Series%20VISE_MANUAL%20English.pdf
They also have a non-pdf chart somewhere. Approx 100:1 force, about 1,000 lbs per 10 lbs on the handle. Funny, tho, 80 lbs does not yield exactly 8 times the force of 10 lbs -- more like 7 times -- but still 7,000+ lbs!
Note the service intervals! I don't think there's a shop on this planet that does anything maintenance-wise, until the vise jams. :)
I've had to disassemble kurts, to clean out the lead screw hole with a wire pipebrush, mounted on a drill. There's sposed to be a plug there to keep debris out, but I've yet to see a kurt with one intact. I stuff a plastic bag there, altho those black round plastic inserts for tubing ought to do it, as well. Or a wood plug.
--
PV'd



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snipped-for-privacy@rise.zzn.com wrote:

zymrgy:
    Let me ask you this, have these vises you have observed to move .001-.002 ever been tightened in the past by hitting the handle with a plastic hammer? Or been repeatedly tightened by some 600lb gorilla putting his full weight on the end of the vise handle?     Overtightening can bow the vise base which can tilt the jaw faces slightly out of parallel, and actually DECREASE the holding power of the vise, since the full face of the vise jaws are no longer in complete contact with your part.     Overtightening Kurt vises is unfortunately a more common practice than it should be. IMO, that's one reason spider handles are better for tightening than the longer single bar handles. You can't really WHACK a spider handle without taking a chance of knocking one of the levers right off the handle.     Repeated overtightening can make the material of the key and keyway deform enough to sometimes create clearance. Once the process starts it can only get worse over time if such abuse continues. What needs to be done in that case is to unscrew the solid jaw, remachine the keyway in the base AND solid jaw to fit an oversize key, making sure there it's a light tap fit (not a press fit and not a slip fit).
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
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wrote:
To: snipped-for-privacy@rise.zzn.com

<snip>
Agree
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jon_banquer wrote:

Jon:
    It appears you're correct, I made an observational error. I saw the blackness in the poor pictures on the Chick website and made an incorrect assumption that it was an open area. On a closer view of the black area I see what appears to be serrated rails that are moved forward by the internal screw, they seem to have only .5-.75 worth of travel before they hit the vertical stops.     BUT this brings to light a couple of more possible issues of concern.
1. The jaw movement mechanism seems too clever by half - a lot of moving/sliding parts that could possibly cause problems. The clearance between the longitudinal holes the serrated rods run in along the sides could become contaminated with chips or debris and become hard to move or at the worst get scored & jammed. The open area around the vertical clamps that act as a stop for the over-travel of the serrated rails could get chips or a piece of material caught in/around them which might restrict the full travel ability and interfere with full closing of the jaw at a particular position.
2. Chips, debris, material, could get caught between the ratcheting mechanism and the rack teeth. That "might" interfere with an equal "pulling" of the movable jaw down, which might twist it slightly out of square horizontally.
3. I also notice from the drawings that the underside has three open pockets that seem to intersect the screw and rails moving apparatus. So when the Chick is mounted on a normal T-slotted table, some of those pockets will be over the T-slots. When I blow off the table after a job I usually blow the T-slots under the Kurts to clear out the chips. If that is done with the Chick, it seems that chips would be very likely be blown up into the pockets that happen to be over the T-slots that you're blowing the chips out of. Even if you were just blowing chips from around the outside, there is a possibility that you'll accidentally blow some chip up in there. I would venture to guess that chips under there may not be advantageous to the functioning of the vise.
    Now it's not known if these hypothetical issues might, could, or will, surface in actual use, but IMO, they could be problem areas to keep in mind.

    See comments above, concerning Chick open pockets over the T-slots.

    You've probably not been machining long enough to remember the crude vises that were used 40 years ago. Even the best of them would be considered pure junk today. The first Kurts (with their angloc design) were far and away superior to the old style vises.

Chick and then on a NEW

    You've been corrected by three different people now, concerning the time to drive to San Diego from Saugus. Let me try to put it a different way, it's about 150 miles. To go 150 miles in 1 1/2 you would have to AVERAGE 100 miles per hour.     While I don't mind going over 130 from time to time, I don't think I'd want to try to do 140 MPH on every clear straight away, to AVERAGE 100 mph. Does THAT make it a little more clear now? <g>
    I'm going to separate the non-vise related irrelevant chit-chat into another sub-thread, to try to keep this one on-topic.
>> I said that's what it "looks like". So how else is it held? > > When they arrive you can see for yourself.
    Non-responsive.
    The view of the underside of the Chick vise doesn't show any additional hold-down screws. Are there any?     If not, then that is a definite design flaw, since the solid jaw can lift under moderate to strong clamping pressure when holding a part at the top of the vise jaws.
>> How does the ratcheting mechanism work? > > It works well.
    Non-responsive.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume there is a pin/tooth or series of teeth, that contact the serrated rails to operate the movable jaw. Now, the contacting tooth/teeth whatever, seem to be retractable by the buttons on the sides of the movable jaw. That may create a weak link that might very well be prone to deflection under moderate to strong clamping pressure. That possible deflection might enable the movable jaw to lift under pressure.     Also, if chips got between the tooth/teeth that might cause uneven clamping pressure and affect repeatability.
>> How are the jaws held on? > > When they arrive you can see for yourself.
    Non-responsive.
    The jaw holding mechanism seems like it would be a weaker holding design than simply using two screws.     BTW How are you going to use your Talon Grip vise jaws? An adapter plate? That kind of defeats the point of the quick release feature.
    Here is just one of many sites that have quick-jaw changing tooling for Kurt type vises.
http://www.solidmax.org/JLocSystem.html
>> How is the immovable jaw support held to the base, and what absorbs >> the closing pressure - key? pins? bolts? > > When they arrive you can see for yourself.
    Non-responsive.
    If the clamping forces are resisted by pins or bolts instead of a key, then that further limits the clamping forces that the vise can withstand.
    Why have you evading these questions? And why have you tried to deflect attention away from the vise into other irrelevant areas? Could it be that you're simply trying to justify your decision in getting your shop to purchase a Chick vise? Do you think your management are reading these posts? LOL
    The first thing I'd do if I were you, would be to put an indicator on both the movable and immovable jaws to see how much they move when clamping a part at the top of the vise jaws. If it's a significant amount, perhaps you can return the vise for a refund before you run into other problems.
    BTW Did you do your homework and check out these other vises before purchasing the first one demo'd?
http://www.te-co.com/2+Station+Vises-C-6015-C-.aspx
http://www.kesel.com/02_Produkte/Spannsysteme_ClampingTools/KESEL-CNC_E.php
http://www.indtool.co.nz/pages/itemdetails/?item=TOP5390
http://www.machinetools.net.tw/parts/profile-169-572-0.htm
http://www.machinetools.net.tw/parts/profile-99-572-0.htm
http://www.allproducts.com.tw/manufacture97/janechin/product1.html
http://www.ame.com/line.cfm?id=fixt-Triag#vise
--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob
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I always object to ignorant lying idiots like Joe788 who try and rewrite history, post with alias so they can't be sued for their many lies and have no clue about CADCAM.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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So, how much does the new Chick vise weigh? Why would Chick build it out of iron instead of aluminum?
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Well variety is the spice of life Thats what the judge is gonna tell my wife She said why did you have to do it?, why you such a fool? I can't resist to try something new..........
--The Doors, Other Voices--circa 1971
--






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Attaboy BB.....just keep pokin the rabid lil chihuahua in the ribs with a stick. Watch him turn on ya now. :) Yip Yip !!
Barn
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"Attaboy BB.....just keep pokin the rabid lil chihuahua in the ribs with a stick. Watch him turn on ya now. :) Yip Yip !!"
LOL Hey Barn, does your reply to adress work? Got sumpin' fer ya'.
J
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Yea ..... send away.
Barn
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"Yea ..... send away."
Done.
J
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Got it......Cool....just DAMN COOL.!!! Has the "lil chihuahua" seen this or do you think it would just make his tiny lil brain explode? :)
Barn
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Now Now. Can't have this stuff circulating. It isn't really Blob worthy anyway.
JC
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No circulation from here. They're locked in da vault. Them still be some Damn Impressive photos.
As for the Blob.....you're right....that Blob ain't worthy of anything. :)
Barn
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barn snipped-for-privacy@excite.com wrote:

Barn:
    Turn on me? Why ever would he do that, I'm just debating the pros & cons of Chick and Kurt vises.
--
BottleBob
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I've always attributed it to him just bein plain nuts.

You're correct, YOU are debating.....he's just ramblin aimlessly about anything to avoid answering your direct questions/concerns about the Chick Vise. Of course....as usual....he thinks nobody notices this.....Its what makes him so damn comical.
I gotta admit....I've always found it "interesting" at how sensible and logical you try to talk to him while he's insanely ramblin and babblin and slobberin all over himself tryin to get under your skin. I personally have always thought its just your own personal BOTTLEBOB way of "gettin all up in his head" just for your own pleasure. Am I close?
Here's a thought......Since somehow lil jonnie thinks he can make a round trip from your shop to his in only 1 1/2 hours, why not have him fire up the ol Saab and come pick you up at your shop and take you to his shop so he can show you his "broom". Maybe you two can do a lil "bonding" on the drive back and forth. Don't forget the video camera......well.....for the rest of us. :)
Barn
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