A modest proposal... or Jerry Irvine saves the Universe

How about some 8x10 glossies with arrows and diagrams on the back?

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Jerry Irvine wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

While your namecalling ("lying sack of shit") is?

len.

As an asside, what ever happended to Manning Butterworth since his resignation as NAR president? Did he continue his NAR membership? Did he try and organize any model rocket activity at the University of Wales? Did he ever consult with the board on unfinished buisness? Is he still at the Univerity of Wales?

Alan

That's "8 by 10 color glossy prints with circles and arrows on the back of each one".

-Fred "you can get everything you want" Shecter NAR 20117

Alex, I am also an engineer, both by profession and disposition

my point was that your not possessing information does not necessitate that the information does not exist, or that it is not sound

your saying that it does not or is not resembles the unlogical conclusions that Ray typically reaches

my suggestion is that we have learned a bitter lesson from the events of the past year, and will not repeat the mistake of entrusting TRA/NAR with our future

- iz

as an engineer you should know that absence of data cannot establish a fact

for example, we have no data on the afterlife, or the sentience of the planet earth

so we cannot definitively establish that these are not true, we can only observe that there is no evidence either way and so continue to speculate as we will

- iz

My email records show that I contacted Mr. Wickman on December 11, and

12, 2002, January 6, 2003 and February 13, 2003 and was politely, but positively rebuffed in my efforts to open dialogue with him.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

"When you keep calling the girl, and she won't answer the phone, it means she's not interested in dating you."

I think even Iz has forgotten that, judging by some of his recent posts painting himself in that role.

John Kyte was and is a paid consultant to the NAR and TRA and worked and works at Dick Embry's and my direction and supervision as authorized by our respective Boards.

I'll keep saying this until you guys get it.

At no time did I or Dick authorize John to offer any weight limit.

At no time did John on his own imitative offer any weight limit.

What must I do or say to dispel the completely inaccurate notion that he or NAR/TRA are the source of this number?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

"Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?"

Does he have to do it personally, or can he hire a couple thugs to do it for him? :)

I will ask John his take on it.

Look to my own post re my experience at NARCON-03 to see how you treated questions from a member in "good standing" (obviously a term used loosely).

Jerry

From: Mark B. Bundick ( snipped-for-privacy@id>Mark, please answer the question. What is the result of John Kyte's participation?

House and Senate staffers have questions generally about the sport rocketry hobby. They're not familiar with what we do for fun. They don't have a clue from squat about dual deployment or M1319's or proper throat diameters or PSAN. There's no inherent reason for them to know about this stuff. We're not America's most popular pastime.

Whether grounded in science or not, those staffers and their bosses have real objections to creating an exempted class for materials that the Administration says are dangerous explosives. The people the staff and members most generally turn to for advice in these matters, ATFE, says it's an explosive, and, like it or not, to Congress, they're the experts in these matters.

There's a need for sport rocketry users and leadership to know what those questions and objections are, both to provide information to our community, and to counter the fears and objections. Unless we know about the issues and objections, we can't successfully counter them.

There are multiple ways to get legislation passed through the Congress. Each one has pluses and minuses. All have been used at various times to successfully pass into law bills which provide relief to widely varying constituencies. What's the optimal path to take?

Given this environment, we have choices to make.

How should the education of members and staff be accomplished?

How can the fear, uncertainty and doubt being sown by ATFE be dispelled?

How can the optimal legislative path be diserned?

How can we engage the members and staff in productive dialog in order to obtain their votes in our favor?

How will the sport rocketry community know what progress is being made or not made towards the passage of legislation, and what, if anything, they should do about it?

Members can certainly argue that we could attempt to do those things on our own.

I submit we should learn from other trade, professional and recreational associations who have problems with the Government.

What do they do to affect legislative change?

They use professional advisors to:

- educate members and staff on their issues;

- provide feedback to association members about progress, concerns and roadblocks;

- assist the leadership in the nature and timing of strategy designed to get legislation passed.

It's John who's provided that staff and member education, that progress reporting to members, and that legislative strategy counsel to NAR and TRA.

If members believe John has not provided value in these three areas, they should tell me either what I should instruct John to do differently going forward, or offer realistic alternatives to his services.

To date, I have received no credible feedback regarding how to get this job done without John Kyte's help.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Mark B. Bundick mbundick - at - earthlink - dot - net NAR President www - dot - nar - dot - org

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - anon.

Jerry Irvine wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

Yeah, the judge is taking his sweet time, but unlike the senate bill the opposition can't kill it outright. And if it hadn't been for the senate bill we might not have had to wait so long for a ruling in court.

And while you are responding to my posts:

1. Cease and desist asking for ATF permits in violation of law, of NFPA codes, of your lawsuit position and of course of your fiduciary duty.

a. Inform me when you have ceased.

1. Cease and desist claiming there is a 62.5g limit of any relevence to ATF.

a. Inform me when you have ceased.

Jerry

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L

You mean like TRA and NAR already does every day and in every way?????

You wouldn't have to PAY people to beat on jerry. They would do it for the privilege.

Len wrote:

They are theoretically totally disconnected.